Hello Everyone,

Been busy with problems this winter, so I haven't been very active, but I need some help with the next problem I have scheduled. My former winter car, a 2005 Xtype V DP 3.5 failed last fall just before snow time here. I had only driven 4 miles to the nearest library to return materials and had no problems; starting up the hill to cross the river the transmission seemed to slip. I pulled over and tried all the gears–only second would hold, so I drove home in second at about 30 mph and checked the fluid level (I had just changed it and the transfer case and differential fluids while doing the plugs, coils and upstream O2 sensors before winter) all was well. The only codes were for a right front wheel speed sensor I had also replaced, but was still struggling with and yaw rate sensor. I assumed the worst and decided to pick up another 'beater with a heater' (08 Lincoln MKZ) to get through the winter while I decided whether to rebuild or abandon the X400. I researched the JF506E here and on Jag-lovers and found out a lot about the reverse/high clutch piston problem. It sounded like that was my problem. I put it off until warmer weather (my garage is insulated but only heated by electric space heaters–I put one on each side of me and suffer, but here, as everywhere January has been brutal, and with overnight lows below 0⁰F all month, I haven't been able to get the ambient garage temp above 20⁰F all day.
Back to the present: Today I decided to warm up my sleeping cats as it was a relatively balmy?? day of 24⁰F. I'm only able to do this on my relatively long circular farm driveway, since I don't insure them in winter(it's long enough for them to shift). The X shifted smoothly with no hesitation or stumbles. No new codes were present, mileage: 181386 mi. My guess is the cold temps have closed the possible cracks in the piston and the problem will return when it warms up or I'm able to test it out on the road.

I'm looking for critiques of my diagnosis and advice on how to proceed and will much appreciated any and all responses.

Thanx, Rick

 

Hello All

Guess I should have been more explicit about what I was looking for, as I received absolutly no response to my plea for help, not what I've found on this forum in the past. Anyway, I had done extensive searches when my X-type winter car had transmission issues and had pinned multiple references to a third page of my cellphone home screen; however, that phone went black just at the time my quickly sourced, temporary winter car developed serious problems, leaving me with no transportation and no communication. I walked to the nearest neighbors and used their phone to call my closest son who lives about 45 miles away for a ride, to and got a replacement phone at the nearest option 12 miles away. When I got back to repairing duties , I found that, although the phone was still working–it would still ring and beep for calls and notificcations–I was unable to retrieve any files from it. So, I had lost all the pinned info that I had worked hard to find; because none of my searches on the forum bore fruit–I got most of it from Google searches that referred me to this forum. Then today. I went to the nearest library to spend the afternoon trying to recover the info I had previously saved (a laborious process on Google with many dead ends even though I had written down the URL's for the forum threads, they all came up empty on Forum searches and Google searches. I eventually found a link to one of them on Jag-lovers, probably where I found it the first time, and when I copied it and emailed to my phone, was able to open it and all the associated links on my phone and on my laptop. Ain't this new technology grand?? Tedious also.

Because I had already been through all this tedium before, I made the above call for help, hoping someone with a better filing system would save me. I was also seeking confirmation that replacing the reverse and high clutch piston might be worth trying before giving up on the car. It's a great car, and I'd hate to give it up, but a rebuilt is a bit too much when these cars commonly sell for much less than rebuilt transmissions do.

Any way, here's the thread I was looking for if anyone else is interested.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...m_content=post

It's an old thread, and the main participants are no longer active, but it's got some good information on this problem, including part numbers.

Since this problem was apparently most common in MY 2001-2003 cars, if anyone has any advice on my intentions to pursue this I'd be very much appreciative as always.

Thanx, Rick

 

X-Type VDP 3.5???
What is that? I only ever knew, that the X-Types come in 2.1L, 2.5L and 3.0L...

I read now everything you wrote, my eyes are sore, but I still have no idea, what your problem is, other than you might have replaced a phone or something.

Is your X-Type driving or not?
Do you have any transmission issues?
If though: What exactly?
Is our reverse gear working, or this this the only one, which does not work?
You also mentioned, that you changed your ATF and that you checked your ATF-level:
How did you change it?
What ATF did you use?
How did you check it?

 

Hello Peter,
Thank you for responding. I've read many of your posts. Apologies for my long-winded, stream of consciousness style of writing; I'll try to stick to 'just the facts' in this recap.

Last September when preparing my winter car X-type 3.0 VDP for the season (right now I'm working on my temporary replacement for it which has a Lincoln 3.5 V6, hence the mix-up on engine displacement) I changed the transmission fluid by draining it, then using a syringe with a rubber hose to remove any more fluid I could reach, refilled with 3 quarts Castrol Transmax import multi-vehicle fluid and checked the level at the level plug after driving about three miles and determining that the case was slightly warmer than body temperature (98.6⁰F) I repeated this two more times after driving in between. I had also done this when I bought the car about three years ago. I did not run it after draining as I believe you do.

I had been having no issues with this transmission when it suddenly failed while driving an upward sloping bridge from a stop. It seemed to be slipping and I stopped as soon as I crossed the bridge to look for leaking fluid. Finding none, I shifted through the gears and felt response in R, D and 2. Starting out in D again, I found it again seemed like it was slipping as I continued up the hill beyond the bridge, but it kept going slowly, and I realized it wasn't shifting. Stopping again, I tried starting out in all forward gears and that only second and drive responded, so I limped home four miles in second, drove in the garage over my pit and checked the fluid levels in the gearbox and, just for good measure, the transfer case as well. All good. I searched this forum for hints, and for info on the wisdom of DIY rebuilding. Not finding much I did a Google search and found a 2009 thread on Jag-lovers by Devon Stehle that described my experience and he diagnosed it as a cracked piston and gave a sketchy description of the replacement. He hadn't responded to requests for more info, so I searched elsewhere for part numbers online and eventually found a reference to a thread on this forum that featured a long dialogue between metal Marty and Itmax about the same issue. The link to that thread is in the post above yours. That's the one I lost when my phone died.
Other than that: Yes, reverseworks fine; No, it is not driving, except for periodic warm-ups, the last of which, as noted above, found it shifting just fine during a very short drive at low speeds; There are no gearbox DTC's.

I was also hoping to hear if this might not apply to my MY 2005 car as Jaguar seemed to think it had fixed in 02 or 03 according to a TSB found on JagRepair.com.
Thank, again Peter
Best, Rick

 

When checking the fluid level at the "level plug", did you do this at the lower or higher plug?

 

Hi Dell,
The higher one for that purpose on the outside (left side) of transmission.
Rick

 

Well that's your problem. The higher one releases the reverse band inside the transmission. The lower plug is the level check plug. There is an internal "pipe" in the transmission that when filled correctly starts draining out of this tube through the lower plug. Here's a thread on how this happens.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-199408/page2/

 

No, I did not remove the reverse band bolt! Lower plug is drain plug, higher plug is level plug, highest plug (rubber bung) is fill plug. I've replaced the fluid several times and still have reverse as stated above; certainly I haven't removed the reverse band bolt. I've used the level plug marked with a yellow arrow in the photos and labeled #3 in your attachment above.

 

There are 2 plugs on the side of the transmission. I'm not talking about the one on the bottom where you drain the fluid. It is explained thoroughly in the thread if you read the entire thing with all the links. The lower one on the side is the fluid level check plug. The upper one on the side is the reverse band plug. The lower side plug for checking the fluid level has a "pipe" internally that bleeds out fluid when full. It's higher internally, so fluid fills up past the lower side bolt before it drains back down through the "pipe" to the lower side bolt. It's counterintuitive, you would think the higher bolt would be the "full" fluid level check plug. It is not.

 

Hi, Dell,

Okay I'll submit to another test of my knowledge of fluid changing, though I was hoping to get on to my query regarding the advisability of replacing the high clutch piston rather than rebuilding the transmission based on the symptoms I had experienced.


Bottom of transmission, near back of transmission–side of car. This is the level check plug at the foot of the internal overflow pipe, tube or channel (not visible). Drain plug is also visible above and to the left in the larger photo.

No, it is not counterintuitive if you have installed bathroom sinks, bathtubs, toilets, garden pools, fish ponds, livestock watering stations or many other applications with overflow drains, otherwise we'd be afraid to sit on toilets because the water level in the tank is halfway up our back!

If this satisfies anyone that that my transmission was not slipping due to low fluid level, which as I stated in my initial post, was my first thought, and that it was, instead, not shifting up above second then maybe we can move on to my original concern.

Thanks to Peter and Dell for responding, and if they or anyone else has knowledge or experience with this piston problem, please give me a hand here.

Best, Rick

 

One of the purposes of my questions was to figure out, if you have accidentally released the reverse band in the transmission by mistaking the bolt on the side for the check bolt (there is NO check bolt on the side!). Dell also picked up on this suspicion of mine, but you all established now, that this was not the case, as your reverse gear is still operational and the bolt with the yellow arrow depicted above is the correct check bolt.

About that check bolt: I am not a fan of this check bolt and of that design, but this is how to use it correctly:
Car securely raised with stands, so that the whole car is level. With Engine RUNNING (and ideally with someone going thru the gears - I do not do that, as this involves too many dangers in my opinion) and the ATF having a certain temperature (not cold and not too hot - it's reached after a short time of engine running) remove the check bolt. The idea is that if a little bit of ATF flows out of there, the level is correct.

I wrote a threat about X-Type ATF change:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...change-266693/

Meanwhile, I came up with another method to measure the ATF level on an X-Type - also not optimal, but worth a try:
I have destroyed a thin metal 30cm long ruler by cutting a 2-3mm wide strip of it. Maybe you find an alternative thin metal strip somewhere.
With the engine NOT running I stuffed it down the filler hole under the battery. The idea of that is to get a replacement for the ATF dip-stick, which should have been designed in there in the first place, but is not...
With a lot of wiggling I managed to get the stick down in there to where it hits the bottom (not the absolute bottom, just the closest bottom straight under the filler hole. And on the stick you can hopefully see just a bit of ATF at the very bottom of the stick. It's not ideal, but no indication of ATF on the stick would mean that you do not have enough ATF, and any high up indication would mean that you have too much ATF. Note that you would need to do this measurement slowly to avoid false indication from ATF being transferred to the stick from any parts, which the stick may touch on the way down. Thus best do this measurement a long time after the engine last ran.

In my link above you will also find a lengthy section about the kind of ATF, which needs to be used. I am an antagonist to any multi-vehicle ATF (a so called multi-vehicle ATF, because it promises to be suitable for a whole lot of vehicles...: But without going into specifics: Just think about it: ATF specifications are very distinct and specific. What multi-vehicle ATFs are promising is impossible. Multi-vehicle ATF are UNSUITABLE for ALL kinds of vehicles. Maybe that's your issue - who knows.

I am also not a fan of the extremely wasteful and ineffective 3 x drain and 3 x refill method - which is why I am doing the full flush, which I described in my link above.

The "cracked piston" you are writing about: I think it is safe to assume you are not writing about an engine piston, but about one of the many pistons inside of an automatic transmission. I do not know much about that, but I would find it unlikely for one of those pistons to fail (I think those pistons do have seals (but I might be mistaken there - thus a failed seal is more likely than a cracked piston) precisely after an ATF change. The timing seems odd. Another thing, however, which could have happened, is that the ATF change has "shifted" dirt inside of the transmission = and some of that dirt is now inhibition the proper movement of one or more pistons. In that case, the transmission needs to be removed and dismantled and cleaned. But hoping that that is not the case:

Under the line: I have a feeling that your ATF level is wrong. I am not too sure, what will happen, if you overfill (I have a suspicion that that would cause damage to seals and cause leaks), but I know from own experience that an ATF level too low would leave the transmission non-functional.

(I once wanted to change oil and I was apparently not paying too much attention to what I was doing: I opened the drain plug, drained all the fluid, and put another 6L (or so) engine oil into the engine oil filler... - and than I wondered that the car would not budge a millimeter off the spot anymore...: What I did: I accidentally mixed up the drain plugs: Instead of draining the engine oil, I drained the ATF. As a result I had bugger all ATF in the transmission and about 12L engine oil in the engine... . Amazing that the engine runs with 12L of oil. Less astonishing that the transmission is non-functional with insufficient ATF... ).

PS: >> ...and checked the fluid levels in the gearbox and, just for good measure, the transfer case as well.
I forgot to ask: Tell me exactly, HOW you "checked" the fluid level in the TC (transfer case). Because it is easy to do this wrong...