Hi.

Would anybody have the Jaguar XK8 specific PID equation for transmission temperature? I would like to put it in my Torque application.

 

I wish I knew how to grab those PIDs from the SDD program, but I've only stumbled across them within an .xml file that was generated once.

 

Got the file?

I could grab the PID etc but don't have an XK8. Is it the same ZF (6HP26) trans I have?

You'd need something that's prepared to issue a specific PID (well, not actually a PID but same as) - which app did you have in mind?

 

Hi JagV8.

The transmission is not exactly the same. I have a ZF 5HP 24.

What I am looking for is an equation to put in my Torque App so I can read my transmission fluid temperature. Here is an example of an equation that does not work in my car:

Transmission Fluid Temp
PID: 221674 Unit: F Max/
Min:100.0/0.0
Equation: ((A*256)+B)/8

If this unclear it is probably because I really do not know what I am talking about.

 

I've got the 5HP24 as well, and I don't believe we have a transmission temperature sensor. PIDs can only help if you've got a sensor to supply the data.

.

 

Hi.

The Coupe:
I respectfully disagree with you. The dealer Diagnostic Tool is able to read the temperature. I think the temp. sensor is a part of the internal transmission harness.

 

Without an XK about all I can suggest is to try:
TCM is perhaps at 7E1 and replies to7E9
if it, you "just" have to guess the PID
well... Ford tend to use mode 22 and 1674 so maybe a fair first try
and then guess the equation (probably the easy bit)

 

Interesting, this is something I've wanted on my 97 as well. I recall just as Coupe said, the 97 doesn't have it available as later models do. Nevertheless, per the schematic it's in the TCM.
We need a good bit banger fluent in the bus lingo on these rigs. Someone should be able to write a script that would ping all possible modes and PIDs, ratchet through all the possibilities, and capture the successful combinations. You would then correlate the list to some known PIDs to finish reverse engineering the new loops.
Sounds like a great project. Wish I had time to learn the bus protocols.

 

Hmmm...well, there it is on the drawing. If it's truly there for the early cars like mine, I'd love to be able to access that data.

Perhaps our resident Electronics Wizard - WhiteXKR - can weigh in on whether the sensor is there, and if it is, how we can read it.


.

 

Hi again.

Thanks all of you.

This is turning into an interesting discussion with some elements way above my head. I'm afraid we need somebody with more knowledge to bits and bytes than I have.

It would however be very nice if we could figure it out through some reverse engineering.

Could somebody with full diagnostic system please confirm that they can read transmission temperature.

 

Don't know if anyone is still pursuing this or not. I've just had some random thoughts on it.

The oil temp sensor could be either discrete or analog on the 97. That is, if discrete, it just sets an alarm for high temp at the TCM (and we're just out of luck). In that case a TRANS TEMP HOT or similar would show up on the alarm display in the odometer section on the instrument cluster. That could explain the lack of an available temperature measurement on the 97. If we could see an input chart for analog and descrete inputs for the TCM hardware it might shed some light on it.

Aside from that, putting a volt meter on pin 14 might give us a hint if it was analog or not (of course if it's a current sink that would show a constant voltage and not tell you anything). One would hook it up and then run the car to see if the voltage changed. If you also had a meter with a thermocouple input you could run both wires into the cockpit temporarily and chart the pan temperature along side the voltage measurement.

All of this would just get you to whether or not it was an analog signal. You'd still have to devine how to get it out of the TCM.

Mike
..just a control systems engineer with some stray thoughts...

 

Okay, in reference to my previous comment above, this sure looks like an analog signal. Have you got the rest of the schematic? We only see the connection to pin 13 which is a ground.

Mike

 

WDS is capable of monitoring the fluid temp when topping up the gearbox is required. It is available in the DATALOGGER application.

I use it all the time to monitor but I don't have a clue how to access it without my WDS.

Be aware that the Mercedes Gearbox (4.0 XJR/XKR) only allows temp monitor in Drive or Reverse (not P or N) via the CAN bus.

The TSB is written for the PDU but WDS is the later diagnostic unit that replaced PDU.

bob gauff

 

Guys this may or may not help you.

I've been having a dig around in the Datalogger function in the IDS/SDD.

I found the Transmission Temperature (albeit for an X350 with the ZF6HP26)

PID 11BD: Transmission Oil Temperature

Voltage range 0-5V
Minimum -55°C
Maximum 180°C

If someone gives me a VIN for an XK or XKR I can check it out specifically for that model....

 

Hi.


I also have a working SDD/IDS, and I am able to read my transmission temp from the IDS.
But to get a meaningful equation to put into my Torque App is above my head.


ZF 5 HP 24 -97 XK8 VIN XXX011729

 

Good man!

It'll be mode 22 (the 22 is hex, as is the 11bd - upper/lower case doesn't matter).
(22 is a sort of standard for Ford and lots of others, but not actually ISO or SAE.)

Now, the X350 uses CAN and for the TCM you need its ID (CAN address, if you prefer that terminology). I think it's probably 07E1 but may be 07E9. Sometimes you can actually use the PCM's address and get away with it. Look for other Torque example PIDs and have a play. Jaguar/Denso PCMs respond to lots of mode 22 requests.

You'd plug that stuff into Torque.

It'll only work if done right and if the car in question (i.e. not the X350) uses CAN and the TCM is at one of those addresses (or guess it!) and if the TFT "PID" is also 11BD. Let us know...

Oh - it'll work fine if non-CAN so long as the module being addressed is on the bus concerned and at the address you use. (Jag PCM on SCP is quite often address 11 rather than 10 as many other cars PCMs are and some software wrongly assumes the Jag's will be.)

 

Pity I don't really understand any of that stuff... But i'm trying to learn!

It seems that to come up with the equation, we need to know a lot more information about the CAN packets. Here's a good example: TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - Torque Android OBD Scanner Custom PIDs

So I've been looking for a way to "sniff the CAN" as you blokes say, the idea being if we can see the whole packet, then we can work out the equation like that example linked above.

Since I have a Mongoose, I downloaded the J2534-1 Bus Analysis Tool from Drewtech, & tried to get that going.

So far no luck, maybe because the Mongoose I have is a clone, it keeps disconnecting when I go to read the data stream. I'll keep at it, but it's a question of finding time to play around with this.

I know Avos mentioned it was possible to "sniff the CAN" using IDS/SDD but i haven't got that deep into it.

This is all a little over my head, but as they say never too old to learn!

 

Just to add one thing, I installed the latest version of Torque on my phone & added the TorqueScan plug in, which can search for additional PID's.

Nothing. Not a single additional PID came out of the scan.

But I noticed that it was scanning for PID's that were six digits, i.e. 22aa03, 22bde7, etc.

Did you mean we have to add the 22 to the front of the PID's that came out of the IDS/SDD? i.e. it's actually 2211BD for the Tranmission Temp?

One other thing occurred to me, Torque seems to connect to the car with ISO 9141-2, when set on Automatic it picks that one, presumably because it's first in the list, should I try with a different protocol?

There's a few to choose from there, with different bit & baud rates.

It might be that the Trans Temp (and also IAT2, which i'm also looking for) can only been read using a different protocol? I'll see if I can connect with any of the others...

EDIT

And it can't, it will only connect with ISO 9141-2, maybe the cheapo ebay ELM clone can't do the other protocols then?

 

Xgauge / ScanGauge seem to use rather weird (but workable) values. Its idea is that you tell it to send something and a pattern to match the expected reply (so it can find it in case there's other data, which there often is), then a formula for what to do with the reply data. Does Torque (Pro) have something similar?

The example on the TDI forum is using CAN, because 07E0 is a classic PCM address on CAN. So, the example is saying to send to 07E), bytes 221310 (mode 22, "PID" 1310) and so on. Apparently 1310 is EOT on that vehicle (they're not standardised but there are some values that are commonly used). I don't know that I agree with that post about 07E1 as I expect a TCM if it's at 7E1 will respond just fine and I can't see why the software wouldn't be happy if told the right way to match and decode the reply.

The first 2 hex digits are commonly the mode so yes the 6 digits you posted are mode 22 and the function (aka PID) etc.

Usually an elm can do any of several protocols across any of several of the wires in the connector but something has to tell it which to choose. Quite a bit of software for the elm lets the elm use auto. Not ideal except for simple cases. (The elm goes hunting around the protocols and buses, trying to find just the PCM, as that is all that simple software knows.) If you want to read what is going on, the elm data sheet is on their site and quite readable (but not short).

Torque can hopefully be told to use CAN even if it would auto-find the PCM elsewhere. (Many of the jag PCMs are on 2 or more buses out of ISO 9141 (not a bus but let's not get picky), SCP & CAN.) The jag Electrical Guide for each car tends to have a Network diagram as well as otherfigures, showing which bus(es) the various modules are on.

Oh - on some jags the TCM (if there is one) is on SCP but most are CAN.

The PCM, if on CAN as mine is, is happy to reply to a lot of mode 22 requests so is handy for testing to get used to it.

Not having Torque I can only help so much... besides, it's horribly cold here so I won't be in the car if I can help it!

What you really want in Torque (or other app) is not so much an auto-search but a directed-search i.e. you tell it where to look, or a do-this i.e. you tell it what to do.

In case you look at Elm data sheet, you'll see the ATSP command can tell it which protocol etc. So we need Torque to issue the right variant (ATSP6 for HS CAN).

One way to see what's what is to connect both a Mongoose and an elm via a Y (splitter) OBD cable. You ought to remove a resistor from the ISO (from the Elm, probably) as it's not designed for two masters at once. See elm data sheet for a simple circuit or two to get an idea of this.

The elm has a bus monitoring mode where it simply reports whatever it sees. On CAN the snag is that you're flooded with data.

 

I guess this is dead?