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Question....on my 2005 s type 3.0 NA, there is what I assume is a breather hose from the air intake hose between filter and throttle body to a 90 degree elbow on top of passenger side valve cover. Is that elbow on the valve cover supposed to be sloppy? I can freely rotate or wiggle it. I've fought 0174 for years. Changed about everything else. The car is basically stored in my garage as a family heirloom with 225000 miles on it and it drives fine but the cel and 0174 are a battle and I can't smog the car. Is there a PCV valve in this vehicle? I plan on changing the evap purge cannister also for the heck of it. FYI, the air intake "hose" also has a large plastic box attached to it that developed a large hole on the underside which I fiberglassed closed a while back. When I sealed that hole, all the lean codes disappeared and all was good for a while. Now they are back but that box looks ok. So now I'm back to the drawing board.
Thank you for that response and link to the other thread.......so....on what is identified as the camshaft vent tube ( valve cover to air intake). is the elbow on the valve cover supposed to be snug or loose enough to turn it or slightly wiggle it? If supposed to be snug, how does that elbow come out? Pop out, twist out, pry out...? Is the elbow and associated tube/hose a singular part that is purchased together as an assembly?
Thanks for your help. It is very much appreciated.
Yes. I've added an arrow to this image from the training guide to show the location:
Originally Posted by captron1
I plan on changing the evap purge cannister also for the heck of it.
I'd strongly suggest holding off on that for now. At this stage of the process, I'd hate to see you inadvertently introduce a new problem, such as with a defective replacement (not unheard of) or something like a hose unknowingly knocked loose, etc.
Originally Posted by captron1
FYI, the air intake "hose" also has a large plastic box attached to it that developed a large hole on the underside which I fiberglassed closed a while back. When I sealed that hole, all the lean codes disappeared and all was good for a while. Now they are back but that box looks ok. So now I'm back to the drawing board.
Considering all faults previously cleared, I'd triple check the repair. Make sure the original material isn't pulling away from the repair due to the pressure differential with the engine running, but then closing up when removed for inspection.
on what is identified as the camshaft vent tube ( valve cover to air intake). is the elbow on the valve cover supposed to be snug or loose enough to turn it or slightly wiggle it?
I'd think it shouldn't wiggle, but maybe turn with slight resistance. No idea how the elbow comes out, but I bet there's a O-ring in there. It may have failed and is leaking air.
If that is the hose in question, it appears to snap in place. If the prongs are still good, you could probably source a replacement O-ring locally. Any good hardware store should have something of the same dimensions. Make sure it's rated for oil and appropriate temperature. It doesn't have to be the same light blue material.
If reluctant to tear it all apart, temporarily pack the outside with clay or similar material for troubleshooting. Good old Play-Doh or glazier's putty works well. See if the fault clears up with the potential leak sealed. If so, you'd know how to proceed.
I'd think it shouldn't wiggle, but maybe turn with slight resistance. No idea how the elbow comes out, but I bet there's a O-ring in there. It may have failed and is leaking air.
If that is the hose in question, it appears to snap in place. If the prongs are still good, you could probably source a replacement O-ring locally. Any good hardware store should have something of the same dimensions. Make sure it's rated for oil and appropriate temperature. It doesn't have to be the same light blue material.
If reluctant to tear it all apart, temporarily pack the outside with clay or similar material for troubleshooting. Good old Play-Doh or glazier's putty works well. See if the fault clears up with the potential leak sealed. If so, you'd know how to proceed.
Thank you very much for chiming in....So, I have ordered the PCV valve (in the drawing item #4) and I'll change that out easy enough I think. Yes....item #3 in the drawing is the breather tube with the "loose" valve cover fitting. It's not a lot but I can move it pretty easily and I'm tempted to change that out, but unsure of removal. I see the three prongs on your new part pic, which makes me wonder if they break off inside the valve cover if pry out???
As for the discussion on the hole in air intake hose, I actually started that one and pic in #36 is my air intake hose. I sealed it with fiberglass and codes at that time went away.
Thank you very much for chiming in....So, I have ordered the PCV valve (in the drawing item #4) and I'll change that out easy enough I think. Yes....item #3 in the drawing is the breather tube with the "loose" valve cover fitting. It's not a lot but I can move it pretty easily and I'm tempted to change that out, but unsure of removal. I see the three prongs on your new part pic, which makes me wonder if they break off inside the valve cover if pry out???
As for the discussion on the hole in air intake hose, I actually started that one and pic in #36 is my air intake hose. I sealed it with fiberglass and codes at that time went away.
Actually i typed too fast. It's valve pictured as #2 that I plan on replacing, which I believe is the PCV valve.
With P0174 what are your fuel trims at idle (hot engine, parked) & what do they do if you rev to about 2500?
If they drop you can go leak-hunting with such as propane while watching the STFTs.
I know about the leak hunting, as I've battled this for years. Symptoms point to leak but I've had it resolved in the past when it wasn't just a leak. It can be a thousand things with these cars. Here is PARTIAL list of things I've done to chase 0174..
IMT o rings,coils, plugs, fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pump fuel tank gasket, maf sensor, air filter, air intake hose, O2 sensor, fuel injectors, just replaced the PCV valve, fresh battery (s), ad I had a repair shop conduct a smoke test on the engine with no leaks discovered during smoke test.
Things that had the most dramatic effect on lean codes.....repair large hole in air intake hose (code instantly went away) and heavy application of throttle body cleaner spray and wipe down a brown resin like material off entrance sides of throttle body ( that also resulted in a brief remedy of 0174)
What I have NOT done....evap purge cannister replacement and the breather hose replacement from passenger side valve cover to air intake hose.
I think I want to try that breather hose replacement because mine at the valve cover seems sloppy to me, but I'm not sure how to remove the old one at the valve cover. Parts drawings shows it is a 4 prong snap in type fitting, but how do you get it out without breaking off a prong inside the valve cover? If anyone has personally done that breather hose, I sure would love to know.
Lastly, this car does have an oil leak which I am containing with a drip pan. I believe the leak is either the oil pan gasket or the timing chain cover. Could a failed oil gasket cause 0174?
Lastly, this car does have an oil leak which I am containing with a drip pan. I believe the leak is either the oil pan gasket or the timing chain cover. Could a failed oil gasket cause 0174?
In theory, maybe so, but I've never heard of this. When leaking hunting via fuel trims, one preliminary step is to momentarily induce a known air leak by unseating the dipstick. This lets you know your scanner is reporting properly in real time. However, with any leak in the crankcase (whether due to a bad gasket or open dipstick) I'd think you'd get a fault on both banks (P0171 and P0174) instead of just the one side. This leaves me scratching my head.
One other thought. You mentioned having changed the O2 sensor. Was that just a single upstream sensor on the suspect bank? Just thinking out loud, wondering if the new sensor was also bad. I'd be tempted to swap the two upstream sensors and see if the fault follows.
The 3.0 V-6 has been known to have oil leak issues at the juncture between the block and the sump/oil pan. The sump assembly can (and apparently sometime does) warp to the degree that a replacement part is required. The used car dealer from whom I purchased by S-type had to warranty this replacement. I suspect he was less than a happy camper...
The 3.0 V-6 has been known to have oil leak issues at the juncture between the block and the sump/oil pan. The sump assembly can (and apparently sometime does) warp to the degree that a replacement part is required. The used car dealer from whom I purchased by S-type had to warranty this replacement. I suspect he was less than a happy camper...
Yeah, I would have already diy"d the oil pan by now, but it is not a simple job from what I can tell. I believe the engine has to be jacked up off the mounts to get the oil pan out. Ridiculous.
In theory, maybe so, but I've never heard of this. When leaking hunting via fuel trims, one preliminary step is to momentarily induce a known air leak by unseating the dipstick. This lets you know your scanner is reporting properly in real time. However, with any leak in the crankcase (whether due to a bad gasket or open dipstick) I'd think you'd get a fault on both banks (P0171 and P0174) instead of just the one side. This leaves me scratching my head.
One other thought. You mentioned having changed the O2 sensor. Was that just a single upstream sensor on the suspect bank? Just thinking out loud, wondering if the new sensor was also bad. I'd be tempted to swap the two upstream sensors and see if the fault follows.
To be honest it was so long ago on the o2 sensor, I can't attest to which one i changed but I'm sure it was whichever one is easiest to reach. Full disclosure on the trims and faults, I do get 0171 and 0174 pending but only 0174 goes to fault and throws the cel. The trims would indicate air leak because they do go down with rpms, but I did smoke test the car, and as I said earlier, the lean condition sometimes but rarely simply disappears on its own, or right after I fixed the hole in the air intake. This particular car and the lean codes have been the most frustrating situation I have ever had in my 72 year old life. The car is not being driven, but I'm trying to resolve the lean codes so I can smog it and be street legal.
Update on the lean codes......I decided to pull the maf sensor and take a hard look at it. It couldn't possibly be this easy. The o-ring looked a tiny bit flat on one side so I considered that maybe that o ring was allowing some air in. I had the original Denso maf sensor in a parts box so I decided for the heck of it to put the original maf back in. The fuel trims instantly responded to what I think is normal behavior and I was able to clear the codes and after a few drive cycles, all the monitors completed. Took it to smog and it passed. Hooray!!.....I can now get my new registration sticker.
breather hose 2005 s type 3.0
Too funny! I didn't even catch that...
