Hi as some of you know
last couple of weeks have be a nightmare
With my 2003 s type R
a few times I thought blow it and sell it to the scrap yard
But I'm still hanging in there
Just been headache after headache
Especially when I found out the engine control module was not the original kind as in Denso
It was from a earlier model 2001 I was told and the previous owner had it rebuilt to run on can bus network

I sent ecm away to a company to get a second opinion
They phoned and said they could not see anything wrong with ecm but also said it could have a faulty processor
but not 100% sure
They also said they can get me the correct denso refurbished ecm for the car
And program it to the vehicle
But not cheap at $2000.00 including tax

ok I am like a fish out of water when it comes to electrical
but I still try
And that's why I'm so grateful for all the help
I ended up purchasing a new multimeter and started re tracring what I had done
Can bus is good 61 ohms & 120 ohms with ecm disconnected and battery disconnected
can low 2.347volts can hi 2.613 battery connected
realys are all working
All relays have 12 volts going to them
when tested

fues seem fine except for one that has me stumped

ENGINE COMPARTMENT
Fues F38 mini 10A red
engine control module ignition supply, cooling fan module, air conditioner clutch realy
ignition off no power
Ignition on no power
Would someone please be kind enough to tell if if this should have 12 volts with ignition on
Or is it only power when engine running or with the ecm connected

I have tried to find information but hit a brick wall


Thanking you
Darrol

 

Hi Darrol,

A few days ago I got myself a wonderful new multimeter. I have several standard multimeters, but that one is different: A huge digital display, and I don't have to select, WHAT I want to measure and not the range either. Thus, a multimeter for dummies...

This is why I have more information for you than you are asking for:

I measured the red 10A F38 mini-fuse in the engine compartment (3rd one from the right, second row)
Obviously, if the fuse is OK, it does not matter on which side of the fuse you press the probe. I chose the upper pin - it seemed more accessible.
I pressed the other end of the probe against one of the three bolts of the frt. suspension.

As I don't have to select, WHAT I am measuring, the multimeter gave me the information that it is 0.755 kOhm between those 2 points at ignition off, - no voltage -
and with ignition on (Pos. II) I get a reading of 12.3V (Yes, I know, a bit low, but that is with IGN. on (which drains the battery), plus 4x DTRL (daytime running lights).

Or short answer: ign. off: no voltage - ign. ON; Full voltage.

PS: Mine is a 2004 S-Type 3.0L

 

Hi yes I got one of those multimeters for dummies
the type that has auto settings
Just turn it on and away you go
This is the fuse I'm talking about next to the diode fuse
On my car
It has no power on off or on
cheers

 

Yes, I get it.
That is why I wrote you during the middle of the day quickly (rather than jumping around in the garden doing something, as usual), as I figured that you should get this info asap.
'cause, obviously, if you do not get power to your ECM, your ECM won't do you much good. I thought, you found your problem there.
I gather that figuring out as to why the power does not come through via F38 should be quite a bit easier than playing with can-busses and ECMs...
So your 10A fuse F38 is alright, yes? Then check cables, connectors and other stuff next - maybe a relay?

 

I was snooping around in the circuit diagrams for your 2003 just now (i.e. the 2002.5 circuit diagrams):
F38 gets it's power via the EMS control relay - that is R5 in the engine bay fuse box (same fuse box, where F38 is).
The relay in the right bottom end of that fuse box is R3 - one to the left is R2 - and from there one up is R5.

I recommend that you pull that relay. Hopefully the terminals are marked - as they should be. There should be a symbol for a coil - between those 2 pins (on the pulled relay) you put 12VDC (polarity does not matter, as it is a coil, and if you apply 12VDC one way or the other, the coil becomes a magnet - an electro-magnet, closing a contact) and you should hear a click. Furthermore, there should be 3 more pins, one of them labelled C or COM - that means common - sometimes there is no C or COM, but you would find a symbol of a switch - and that end that is always "connected", that is C. When no 12VDC are applied between the coil-pins, there would be a closed contact between C and one of the other pins. called NC (that pin is sometimes omitted on relays - i.e. there would then be a total of 4 pins). And after applying 12VDC to the coil-pins, there would be a closed contact between C and the other pin NO. And it would not surprise me, if that is not the case on your car...

Normally you can pull of the plastic housing off a relay and carefully clean the contact to fix that relay... - and cleaning the contact pins would not do any harm either...

PS 1: Actually I just noticed: The pin usage of R5 is given in the diagram. It's a 5-pin-relay:
The coil is between 1 and 2. Common is 3. NC is 4 and NO is 5.

PS 2: Thus, while you are at it, also measure for continuity between the fuse-box-receptor for pin 5 of R5 and fuse R38 - just in case THAT cable is damaged...

PS 3: And check continuity between receptor for R5's pin 1 and F9 (50A) and check that fuse, while you are at it.
And check continuity between receptor for R5's pin 2 and ECM's Diode 4 (from where it goes on to ECM P11-40)... - I very much assume that Diode 4 is D4, which is 2 to the right of F38... and check D4.
And check continuity between receptor for R5's pin 1 and F9 (50A) and check that fuse, while you are at it.
And check continuity between receptor for R5's pin 3 and F9 (50A)...

 

I don't believe them.

The 2001 non-Denso looks a complete non-starter for that.

I think they've not got a clue and you need to stop using them.

 

Hi Darrol,

I do not know for sure, but would think this fuse should be powered with the ignition on even if the engine has not been started.

See figure 01.7 in the wiring diagrams here:

JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource


Have you done a click test on the suspect relay R5 in the front power distribution box? Place your finger on this relay while a helper turns the key to Run. Be careful, as other relays will also click at the same time, so make sure you can discern if R5 is also clicking. This doesn't confirm the relay is actually connecting power to the downstream circuits, but it does confirm R5 is receiving the command to energize.

As far as no power at fuse F38, look at figure 01.7 again. Fuses F37 and F17 are wired in parallel with F38. Test those fuses at the same time. They should all be the same. If only F38 is dead, then you've got a wiring problem. If all three are dead, most likely relay R5 is bad or is it not receiving the command to energize.

For a friendly suggestion, it will probably be best if you keep all replies to a single thread. I realize how frustrating the situation must be, and you obviously need answers quickly. However, it's maddening to have to read through multiple threads on the same subject to glean little bits of info from each one.

 

Hi thanks
Did some cheeks today
Relay R5 has power 13.2 volts at 2 pins but no click or feel of movement relay is fine
Fuse 17 37 38 have no power with ignition on
I started to think I was on to something but then I thought
What if I need the engine control module to be connected
To complete the circuit
my old ecm will be shipped back to me tomorrow
Thanking you
Darrol

 

> Relay R5 has power 13.2 volts at 2 pins but no click or feel of movement relay is fine

I am not sure, if I understand you correctly - read again what I wrote above. I understand your statement above as: Your R5 is damaged...
Yes, of course there would be the voltage across your coil-pins, but if the change from 0V to battery-voltage does not cause the relay to CLICK, your relay is stuck, as I wrote in detail above, including how to check continuity (that means: is there an electrical contact?) between pins 3, 4 and 5 as I described above?

 

Hi Peter thanks
When I was out I took all relay to a auto Electrician in Nelson they tested them every relay is working correctly also had diode fuse d3 d4 tested they all good
what i was trying to say is relay R2 R3 R4 when turn on ignition you can hear a click or feel movement in relay
R5 dose nothing
And no power to fuse 17 37 38
but also that might be happening because ecu is not connected as it might need ecu to complete the circuit
And I'm still waiting for that by courier
I will do the other tests tomorrow morning

Thanking you
Darrol

 

Ok real stupid question
After talking to a friend who works at jaguar nz
He has given me the correct engine control module
Part number for my car
I have just purchased one
So stupid question time
When ecu arrives and if I connect it to vehicle
And turn Ignition on to see if scanner can recognize ecm
will it put car into anti theft if not programed
Not going to attempt to start engine
Just wanted to make sure scanner can pick it up
Thanks
Darrol

 

To use OBD you need at least Ign II so I expect it will do anti-theft checks and ...

 

R5 gets the command to energize from the ECM. There's no way that relay will close if the ECM is not installed. Previously I was not aware the ECM was removed.

Had another thought. Working from my phone only, so I don't have a good way to read the wiring diagrams. However, it looks like R5 only controls power to certain engine systems such as the coils and various sensors. I'm not seeing any path where this relay feeds power to the ECM. In other words, R5 not energizing is a side effect of the ECM playing dead (for reasons still unknown). It is not the root cause.

Anybody else got some free time and could look through the wiring diagrams to be sure? Hate to go down the wrong trail here.

 

Hi thanks for that
Yes I had sent the ecu away to have it looked at
but honestly they are completely useless in new Zealand
I was told that it they couldn't see any damage but it could be a failed processor due to the Apprentice auto electrician trying to reconfigure when ecu had no communication causing a overload on ecu
I spoke to a friend who works at the new Zealand
He has given me the correct ecu part number for the car
I found one in the uk
that is now on it's way
I not sure if this is a good idea or not
But when replacement one arrives
I was thinking of connecting it to car and turning ignition to Position 2 to see if it connects with scanner
before I send it to Australia to be programed to the vin of car
my main concern is car might be put into anti theft
Then how hard is that to get out of
Thanking you
Darrol

 

Sorry, I have not read up on this thread for a while, and I just confirmed in the circuit diagram what I suspected a few days ago already myself without reading other comment above:
Yes, while the output of R5 powers the ECM, the ECM provides ground connection the coil of R5, i.e. R5 cannot operate without ECM.

PS: As for the new module you ordered - you wrote somewhere about the different suffixes between your current ECM and the one you ordered. I am sceptical that those are the same modules - but then you wrote something else somewhere that the ECM in your car was actually a wrong one installed by a PO. So maybe the ECM you will receive would be correct after all - but I do not know about what anti-theft-protection-mode the S-Type has in store, if you connect the new ECM...

But I wonder, how you can afford all the time to deal with that all. I thought you would have had to be in GB already!?

 

If it were me and i did not want to use the sdd software i would wait for the programming to be done. You have made it this far working and waiting. I do not know the answer to the security question. But i do know that once the ecm and instrument pack vins are the same the security should be ok.

 

Hi Peter
Thanks for the reply
yes you are correct we were supposed to be on the way to the uk now
but decided to change our flights
But i don't officially start until the 25th September
so we going over on the 20th September
we were going to go early to look around
But will have plenty of time for that
also my farther is spoiling the wife
By letting her use his McLaren when ever she wants to go out
I think she likes all the attention it brings lol
yes you were right about the other ecm having a different suffix but I didn't get that sent

Have a friend who works at jaguar nz
He looked the correct one by vin
So have the correct one on the way

Thanking you
Darrol

 

Hi thanks
only was asking because
I just wanted to make sure
Replacement ecu was working
before it was sent away to be programed

Thanking you
Darrol

 

I understand darrol. If it programs good all is well. I think your car might be in security mode right now because of faulty ecm as last known ecm to car. Not sure though

 

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...m_content=post

this might have your answer for ecm connection