fuel issue after tps replacement
#1
10-23-2015, 06:25 PM
fuel issue after tps replacement
Not sure if this is a coincidence or related to the tps replacement. I replaced the position sensor today as my car was staying in limp mode and throttling high and would only go 5 mph. 2002 x type 3.0. Now I am not getting fuel to the engine. I checked the release valve nothing. I checked the fuel pump by taking off the line from the fuel filter at first fuel was coming out but had hardly any pressure. Now nothing comes out. I checked the inertia switch and it is depressed as far as I can tell. Could the tps be causing this. Also. It has been sitting and the gaswas very low so I may check the filter tomorrow. I checked the fuel pump fuse under the dash as well. I'm at a loss.. any help would be appreciated. Thanks...
#2
10-24-2015, 02:53 AM
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crutiz, first things first. I would say to put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail to truely see if you are getting pressure or not. with the engine not turning and the key in the run position, you should be getting around 50-55 psig. if you are getting around 40 psig or less, then you have a clogged fuel filter or bad fuel pump most likely. if you are getting 0 psig, then the fuel pump most likely is not getting power.
let's start there and then see where the problem lies. the only other possibility that i can think of is the tps is bad and it is telling the computer that it is full open. this will put the ecu into a recovery mode where it will turn off the fuel injectors as the car is cranking with the intent of clearing a gas flooded engine. this can be easily checked by simply measuring the voltage across the variable part of the tps. if you are getting 5 vdc or more, the computer thinks the throttle is full open. it should be down around 0.99 vdc. measure pink to black/green and yellow to black/green on the tps plug with it still connected and the key in the run position.
let's start there and then see where the problem lies. the only other possibility that i can think of is the tps is bad and it is telling the computer that it is full open. this will put the ecu into a recovery mode where it will turn off the fuel injectors as the car is cranking with the intent of clearing a gas flooded engine. this can be easily checked by simply measuring the voltage across the variable part of the tps. if you are getting 5 vdc or more, the computer thinks the throttle is full open. it should be down around 0.99 vdc. measure pink to black/green and yellow to black/green on the tps plug with it still connected and the key in the run position.
#3
10-25-2015, 12:58 AM
crutiz: Building on Thermo's advice, to confirm the fuel pump is getting electrical power, assuming you have a multimeter, or can borrow one:
0) You've already checked the fuel pump fuse under the dash, and the inertia switch. On LHD US cars, the inertia switch is under the dash by the passenger's right knee, thru a small hole in the plastic trim close to the front door hinge
1) With the ignition key in the off position
2) Pull up hard on both front corners of the back seat. No need to remove the seat; just tip the front up.
3) Under the rear seat, in the center of the metal floor is a ~5 inch circular rubber plug with wires thru it. Set aside the rubber plug. Thru the hole you are looking at the top of the black plastic fuel tank.
4) The wires thru the ~5 inch rubber plug go to a rather large electrical connector on top of the fuel tank. Unplug that connector.
5) Examine the electrical connector and find the two metal prongs for the red and yellow wires. These wires supply power the fuel pump.
6) Set your multimeter to measure ~20V DC.
7) Have a friend turn the ignition key to run position II, while at the same time you hold the multimeter probes against the metal prongs for the red & yellow wires. Each time your friend turns the key to run position II, the voltage across the red & yellow wires should jump from zero to ~10-12 volts for ~5-8 seconds, then go back to zero volts.
8) If this occurs, your fuel pump is getting power.
9) If this does not occur, i.e., if the voltage across the red & yellow wires remains at zero or nearly zero every time your friend turns the ignition key to run position II, then your fuel pump module may be bad. It's under the rear seat, on the driver side of LHD US cars.
Is you have 10-12 volts power to the fuel pump, then reconnect the electrical connector to the fuel tank and place your hand on the black plastic fuel tank thru the hole in the floor. Again turn the ignition key to the run position II. Each time the key is turned to the run position II, for ~5-10 seconds your hand should feel the soft vibration hum of the fuel pump energizing inside the fuel tank. The pump will shut off and the vibration hum will stop after ~5-10 seconds. If you can't feel the pump energizing inside the fuel tank, it's time to replace the fuel pump.
Final check: Connect a pressure gauge to the fuel rail, then turn the ignition key to run position II multiple times for ~15 seconds each time. The pressure in the fuel rail should climb in ~5-10 psi increments and top out at ~40-50 psi after several cycles.
If it does not climb to ~40 psi after several cycles, then replace the fuel filter and repeat. If that doesn't work, then it's time to replace the fuel pump. The fuel filter is cheap and easy, so hope that solves it. The fuel pump is harder and more expensive.
Let us know what you find, and the good folks on this forum will further assist you.
0) You've already checked the fuel pump fuse under the dash, and the inertia switch. On LHD US cars, the inertia switch is under the dash by the passenger's right knee, thru a small hole in the plastic trim close to the front door hinge
1) With the ignition key in the off position
2) Pull up hard on both front corners of the back seat. No need to remove the seat; just tip the front up.
3) Under the rear seat, in the center of the metal floor is a ~5 inch circular rubber plug with wires thru it. Set aside the rubber plug. Thru the hole you are looking at the top of the black plastic fuel tank.
4) The wires thru the ~5 inch rubber plug go to a rather large electrical connector on top of the fuel tank. Unplug that connector.
5) Examine the electrical connector and find the two metal prongs for the red and yellow wires. These wires supply power the fuel pump.
6) Set your multimeter to measure ~20V DC.
7) Have a friend turn the ignition key to run position II, while at the same time you hold the multimeter probes against the metal prongs for the red & yellow wires. Each time your friend turns the key to run position II, the voltage across the red & yellow wires should jump from zero to ~10-12 volts for ~5-8 seconds, then go back to zero volts.
8) If this occurs, your fuel pump is getting power.
9) If this does not occur, i.e., if the voltage across the red & yellow wires remains at zero or nearly zero every time your friend turns the ignition key to run position II, then your fuel pump module may be bad. It's under the rear seat, on the driver side of LHD US cars.
Is you have 10-12 volts power to the fuel pump, then reconnect the electrical connector to the fuel tank and place your hand on the black plastic fuel tank thru the hole in the floor. Again turn the ignition key to the run position II. Each time the key is turned to the run position II, for ~5-10 seconds your hand should feel the soft vibration hum of the fuel pump energizing inside the fuel tank. The pump will shut off and the vibration hum will stop after ~5-10 seconds. If you can't feel the pump energizing inside the fuel tank, it's time to replace the fuel pump.
Final check: Connect a pressure gauge to the fuel rail, then turn the ignition key to run position II multiple times for ~15 seconds each time. The pressure in the fuel rail should climb in ~5-10 psi increments and top out at ~40-50 psi after several cycles.
If it does not climb to ~40 psi after several cycles, then replace the fuel filter and repeat. If that doesn't work, then it's time to replace the fuel pump. The fuel filter is cheap and easy, so hope that solves it. The fuel pump is harder and more expensive.
Let us know what you find, and the good folks on this forum will further assist you.
Last edited by dwclapp; 10-25-2015 at 01:02 AM.
#4
11-04-2015, 06:40 PM
update on fuel issue
Hello dw thanks for all the usefull advice. So I tested the fuel pump connector line and I'm not sure if I'm not setting my meter right but I'm only getting 4.7 While turning on the key it.does not.fluxuate. the battery was charged over night and showed 13.1 on the charger and after a few start tries I tested the battery with my metter showed just over 12 v. The pump is not.humming at all and no fuel is coming out when I disconnect the line from.the filter. Even when it did flow before it was not.a.strong.jet of fuel. Now nothing. Try the old tps back on the tb and and still now change. Fuse still good. Cheapest fuel pump is 275 partgeek. Not sure how to test the fuel pump module. Thanks so much. Also can't get any code reader to.work says no.link but it's.always done.that aside.from.one.800 dollar scanner. Sorry I'm typing.on.a.phone.... Thanks again. Curt
crutiz: Building on Thermo's advice, to confirm the fuel pump is getting electrical power, assuming you have a multimeter, or can borrow one:
0) You've already checked the fuel pump fuse under the dash, and the inertia switch. On LHD US cars, the inertia switch is under the dash by the passenger's right knee, thru a small hole in the plastic trim close to the front door hinge
1) With the ignition key in the off position
2) Pull up hard on both front corners of the back seat. No need to remove the seat; just tip the front up.
3) Under the rear seat, in the center of the metal floor is a ~5 inch circular rubber plug with wires thru it. Set aside the rubber plug. Thru the hole you are looking at the top of the black plastic fuel tank.
4) The wires thru the ~5 inch rubber plug go to a rather large electrical connector on top of the fuel tank. Unplug that connector.
5) Examine the electrical connector and find the two metal prongs for the red and yellow wires. These wires supply power the fuel pump.
6) Set your multimeter to measure ~20V DC.
7) Have a friend turn the ignition key to run position II, while at the same time you hold the multimeter probes against the metal prongs for the red & yellow wires. Each time your friend turns the key to run position II, the voltage across the red & yellow wires should jump from zero to ~10-12 volts for ~5-8 seconds, then go back to zero volts.
8) If this occurs, your fuel pump is getting power.
9) If this does not occur, i.e., if the voltage across the red & yellow wires remains at zero or nearly zero every time your friend turns the ignition key to run position II, then your fuel pump module may be bad. It's under the rear seat, on the driver side of LHD US cars.
Is you have 10-12 volts power to the fuel pump, then reconnect the electrical connector to the fuel tank and place your hand on the black plastic fuel tank thru the hole in the floor. Again turn the ignition key to the run position II. Each time the key is turned to the run position II, for ~5-10 seconds your hand should feel the soft vibration hum of the fuel pump energizing inside the fuel tank. The pump will shut off and the vibration hum will stop after ~5-10 seconds. If you can't feel the pump energizing inside the fuel tank, it's time to replace the fuel pump.
Final check: Connect a pressure gauge to the fuel rail, then turn the ignition key to run position II multiple times for ~15 seconds each time. The pressure in the fuel rail should climb in ~5-10 psi increments and top out at ~40-50 psi after several cycles.
If it does not climb to ~40 psi after several cycles, then replace the fuel filter and repeat. If that doesn't work, then it's time to replace the fuel pump. The fuel filter is cheap and easy, so hope that solves it. The fuel pump is harder and more expensive.
Let us know what you find, and the good folks on this forum will further assist you.
0) You've already checked the fuel pump fuse under the dash, and the inertia switch. On LHD US cars, the inertia switch is under the dash by the passenger's right knee, thru a small hole in the plastic trim close to the front door hinge
1) With the ignition key in the off position
2) Pull up hard on both front corners of the back seat. No need to remove the seat; just tip the front up.
3) Under the rear seat, in the center of the metal floor is a ~5 inch circular rubber plug with wires thru it. Set aside the rubber plug. Thru the hole you are looking at the top of the black plastic fuel tank.
4) The wires thru the ~5 inch rubber plug go to a rather large electrical connector on top of the fuel tank. Unplug that connector.
5) Examine the electrical connector and find the two metal prongs for the red and yellow wires. These wires supply power the fuel pump.
6) Set your multimeter to measure ~20V DC.
7) Have a friend turn the ignition key to run position II, while at the same time you hold the multimeter probes against the metal prongs for the red & yellow wires. Each time your friend turns the key to run position II, the voltage across the red & yellow wires should jump from zero to ~10-12 volts for ~5-8 seconds, then go back to zero volts.
8) If this occurs, your fuel pump is getting power.
9) If this does not occur, i.e., if the voltage across the red & yellow wires remains at zero or nearly zero every time your friend turns the ignition key to run position II, then your fuel pump module may be bad. It's under the rear seat, on the driver side of LHD US cars.
Is you have 10-12 volts power to the fuel pump, then reconnect the electrical connector to the fuel tank and place your hand on the black plastic fuel tank thru the hole in the floor. Again turn the ignition key to the run position II. Each time the key is turned to the run position II, for ~5-10 seconds your hand should feel the soft vibration hum of the fuel pump energizing inside the fuel tank. The pump will shut off and the vibration hum will stop after ~5-10 seconds. If you can't feel the pump energizing inside the fuel tank, it's time to replace the fuel pump.
Final check: Connect a pressure gauge to the fuel rail, then turn the ignition key to run position II multiple times for ~15 seconds each time. The pressure in the fuel rail should climb in ~5-10 psi increments and top out at ~40-50 psi after several cycles.
If it does not climb to ~40 psi after several cycles, then replace the fuel filter and repeat. If that doesn't work, then it's time to replace the fuel pump. The fuel filter is cheap and easy, so hope that solves it. The fuel pump is harder and more expensive.
Let us know what you find, and the good folks on this forum will further assist you.
#5
11-04-2015, 11:04 PM
curtizb: It's been a year since I replaced the fuel pump in my X-Type, so I'm going off memory. The 4.7 volts you measured across the red & yellow wires to the fuel pump seems too low, as if the fuel pump module may be the problem. A bad fuel pump module would be 'good', since it's a lot cheaper and easier to replace than the fuel pump.
The fuel pump module is under the rear seat, on the left side. It supplies power to the fuel pump via the red wire (power) and yellow wire (ground). When you turn the ignition key to the run position II (not start, just run), the voltage across the red and yellow wires should be 10-12 volts, iirc, which lasts for ~10 seconds after you turn the key to run, before dropping back to zero. This primes the fuel pump and builds pressure in the fuel rail before you start the engine.
If you're measure only 4.7 volts across the red and yellow wires to the fuel pump, confirm that the fuel pump module is getting 10-12 volts from the battery. Unplug the 10 pin connector to the fuel pump module. With the key in the run position, check the voltage across the brown / green wire (pin 9, which supplies ~12 volts battery power to the module) and the black wire (pin 2, the ground). If you measure ~12 volts into the fuel pump module (brown / green wire to black wire), and only 4.7 volts out to the fuel pump (red wire to yellow wire), then I'd replace the fuel control module.
If you measure ~10-12 volts across the red and yellow wires to the fuel pump and the pump is not running, then it's time to replace the fuel pump. I was lucky and purchased just the pump (not the canister) from Welch Enterprises for ~$85. Details here: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...2/#post1298455 But lately, their website lists the entire canister, and not just the pump.
Let us know what you find.
Attached is the wiring between the fuel pump module and fuel pump.
The fuel pump module is under the rear seat, on the left side. It supplies power to the fuel pump via the red wire (power) and yellow wire (ground). When you turn the ignition key to the run position II (not start, just run), the voltage across the red and yellow wires should be 10-12 volts, iirc, which lasts for ~10 seconds after you turn the key to run, before dropping back to zero. This primes the fuel pump and builds pressure in the fuel rail before you start the engine.
If you're measure only 4.7 volts across the red and yellow wires to the fuel pump, confirm that the fuel pump module is getting 10-12 volts from the battery. Unplug the 10 pin connector to the fuel pump module. With the key in the run position, check the voltage across the brown / green wire (pin 9, which supplies ~12 volts battery power to the module) and the black wire (pin 2, the ground). If you measure ~12 volts into the fuel pump module (brown / green wire to black wire), and only 4.7 volts out to the fuel pump (red wire to yellow wire), then I'd replace the fuel control module.
If you measure ~10-12 volts across the red and yellow wires to the fuel pump and the pump is not running, then it's time to replace the fuel pump. I was lucky and purchased just the pump (not the canister) from Welch Enterprises for ~$85. Details here: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...2/#post1298455 But lately, their website lists the entire canister, and not just the pump.
Let us know what you find.
Attached is the wiring between the fuel pump module and fuel pump.
Last edited by dwclapp; 11-05-2015 at 06:06 AM.
#6
11-05-2015, 06:16 AM
Should you need a fuel pump, here are 2 without the canister for ~$120-140 including S&H:
http://r.ebay.com/gmjmwx
Jaguar X Type & S Type Petrol Fuel Pump In Tank 2.0 ,2.5, 3.0, 4.0 New C2N3866
http://r.ebay.com/zeipzl
JAGUAR X-TYPE FUEL PUMP 2002-2007 OE NEW with FILTER Free Expedited Shipping
http://r.ebay.com/gmjmwx
Jaguar X Type & S Type Petrol Fuel Pump In Tank 2.0 ,2.5, 3.0, 4.0 New C2N3866
http://r.ebay.com/zeipzl
JAGUAR X-TYPE FUEL PUMP 2002-2007 OE NEW with FILTER Free Expedited Shipping
Last edited by dwclapp; 11-05-2015 at 06:21 AM.
#7
11-05-2015, 11:31 AM
getting ready to test
Thanks again for the advice I've tested power to the module and got 12.2 v. I again tested the power going to the pump and still only 4.7v. So I'm hoping it's the module and will be trying a new one. Someone also suggested that the fuel pressure sensor on the rail may be bad it seems that that would cut the power to the module thereby cutting all power to the pump?? I had a clutch put in before all this happened so I'm wondering if they messed up wiring under the car and I'm not sure what to look for but will give it a go anyway... Thanks again to all that have helped me thus far you guys are great and I hope I can help someone here in the future as I learn more about the kitty...... Curt
Last edited by curtizb; 11-05-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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#8
11-05-2015, 12:36 PM
curtizb: We all began as newbies, and most are still learning things we didn't / don't know about are cars.
The fuel pump module is under the rear seat by the left door. If you sat in the left, rear seat, it would be under your left thigh and behind your left heal. You can also trace the red and yellow wires from the connector atop the fuel tank back to the fuel pump module.
This thread has pictures of the location: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-start-112305/
Here's what the module looks like out of the car: 2005 2007 Jaguar x Type Fuel Pump Driver Module Control Unit 1X4F 9D372 Ad | eBay
You can remove the rear seat lower cushion to get a little more working room. The hardest part is squeezing the seat belt buckles thru holes in the lower cushion, and getting them back thru the holes to re-install it. No need to remove the back of the seat or center arm rest.
The fuel pump module is under the rear seat by the left door. If you sat in the left, rear seat, it would be under your left thigh and behind your left heal. You can also trace the red and yellow wires from the connector atop the fuel tank back to the fuel pump module.
This thread has pictures of the location: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-start-112305/
Here's what the module looks like out of the car: 2005 2007 Jaguar x Type Fuel Pump Driver Module Control Unit 1X4F 9D372 Ad | eBay
You can remove the rear seat lower cushion to get a little more working room. The hardest part is squeezing the seat belt buckles thru holes in the lower cushion, and getting them back thru the holes to re-install it. No need to remove the back of the seat or center arm rest.
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