Hello! Thought I would post once again since you guys have been such a fabulous and amazing wealth of help and knowledge.

Again, I am restoring a "flooded" 2010 Jaguar XF Premium Luxury. Great news, I have her running and all of the water dried out.

Upon a great storm last night... I am "flooded" again! Dun dun dun! Perhaps this car isn't a victim of normal flooding after all. From purchase the sunroof has been slightly dipped in the front. I am beginning to wonder if a leaking sunroof is the culprit.

Also noticed bottom half of passenger door seal is VERY wet...

So, the sunroof is completely inoperable. I've checked all associated fuses and they seem fine. I pulled down the switch and it looks okay. Pressing the button does NOTHING, nor does it make any noise like it wants to move.

Anyone have tips for diagnosing the electrical on these? Perhaps know where I can apply power to manually move the sunroof? I noticed a motor installed above the switch, but I didn't want to start randomly probing wires and mess more up.

Also, I have read a few things about the sunroof drains getting clogged. Anyone know how I can check these or where they drain off? I can reverse clear them, but as of the issue being I cannot open the sunroof, doubt I can check from the top end.

Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

 

Good news! Supposed to rain tonight and snow tomorrow. In really classy fashion I have duct taped a trash bag over the sunroof. In a couple of days we should be able to gauge if the sunroof is indeed my culprit. Will update thereafter.

 

Attached the relevant workshop manual sections which may be of assistance.

 

Attached is the only wiring diagram I can find right now, which doesn't actually show the motor, but it does show that the control module has quite a few "dependencies" including the central junction box (and I've looked through all the wiring diagrams I have for that, and none of the pins appear to be for the motor) and the ABS module (for vehicle speed signal).

Hopefully the motor will have some fairly obvious (I'm guessing thicker) wires to apply voltage to.

 

This is absolutely amazing information! Thank you so much! Once the snow clears-up I will dig back in and see what I can figure out. I will be sure to update you once I know more.

Regards.

 

So, while on my lunch break today I did a little investigating. Seems there is a hex key placement on the opposite side of the roof gear on the motor. Using a matching hex socket on a ratchet I was able to crank on this and open and close the roof.

However, it seems that in the fully closed position the sunroof still sits quite a bit further down than the body contour. I am assuming this has to do with the common bolt sagging issue. On quick inspection I cannot visibly find these bolts, so if it isn't in one of these diagrams I may need assistance figuring that out.

I have not yet probed further into the electrical and it is getting ready to snow - from what we know, massively - so it might be a few more days before I get another shot at this.

If someone can give some direction on the sunroof bolt adjustment I will work on that too on my next attempt.

Will continue to update as I find out more. Thanks!

 

There are bolts behind the accordions on the sides of the sunroof but those are only for small adjustments. The accordion slides horizontally and you can see where.

For major geometry problems you need to bite the bullet and drop the headliner down to check things over. I just did this recently to address incessant noises and found 4 nuts either totally loose or fell off completely and the headliner board being the main thing holding up the damn sunroof.

Once you have full access then it is much easier to address any electrical connections, motor, and blowing out the drains. Ask friends if any have a garage space you can borrow for a day. Expect the 5 clips around the sliding panel to break or be broken already, so order ahead and have them on hand before starting.

 

litteredwithfaults great information! Do you have the clip part numbers by chance?
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Okay. I found the adjustment bolts and got that puppy pretty lined-up with the body now. A great many thanks!

Next, I probed all of the wires. I am NOT getting power on the Blue/Orange cable from the junction block to the roof module. This specifically feeds open/close.

I am not an EXPERT at reading these diagrams. So, I cannot determine where the end at the junction block is supposed to terminate. Does anyone know where I need to check? I have power on the other lines, so I am assuming it isn't the fuse. Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Trying to avoid pulling down the whole headliner unless I absolutely need to!

Regards.

 

C2Z11575 and C2Z11576, 3 of each if you get that far. Making sure the drains actually drain is a much bigger concern, that can kill the whole car. A busted sunroof is just a fact of life on an older Jag.

You Tube

 

You are a superb help. I appreciate you pointing out those numbers... But what do they reference? (Lol) Sorry if that seems a bit novice, but I am stretching my legs here.

The jammed drains certainly did kill the whole car, and my next goal is to get those flushed out, but being able to open and close the sunroof will ultimately help me achieve that goal.

I absolutely LOVE the linked video. I feel his pain. This has been pretty much my exact situation from the start! (Finding the flood, couldn't remove seats because they were dead, discovering the sunroof issue...) Here we are now, trying to rectify what seems to be the root cause.

Hopefully once I get the sunroof moving and draining I can reassemble everything and have a very nice car.

 

I tested blue/orange at the central junction box. I am getting no power there. Rather than pulling out the junction block I went ahead and jumped grey/orange at the controller connection. They both seem to be a constant 12v supply, so no issue, right?

Confirmed power, sunroof still not opening. I pulled apart the controller and confirmed the motor works by applying 12v directly. Controller is very clean inside, capacitors are not bulging and I don't smell anything burnt. I reassembled it and left it hanging from the wiring. I again confirmed power, but this time I applied ground directly to the controller on pins 8 and 9 from the back of the connector. Motor does not engage.

Should I rule this as a bad controller, or are there more things I need to do accurately test this controller? I am only getting ground from the abs speed input, should this be something else?

I am going ahead and manually opening it now to try and check/clear the drains.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

Tey and clear the water drainage holes for the sunroof.
I think that if they’re blocked, the footwells will fill with water from the rain, instead of draining to the outside.

 

Thanks! I got the front drains cleared with some trimmer wire to the best of my ability. I ran a bottle of water through them and it is trickling out below the fenders. It rained last night and I just got a very small puddle in the REAR floor pan now, which is MUCH better than before. I just need to figure out how to clear the rear drain now.

This may just be from the fact that the sunroof isn't closed or sealed all of the way yet.

 

I just happen to be in there recently, if you need the clips they are in front of and behind the sliding panel. To pull the headliner down it's required to yank at the open corners of the sunroof down with brute force and they commonly break apart then.

https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.../brand/jaguar/

 

@litteredwithfaults Well, all of the snow is melted and it was actually nice enough (60 degrees Fahrenheit) to work on the car outside. Despite my kicking and screaming, I went ahead and pulled down the headliner. (grumble grumble). I was prepared to see some clips break, but to my surprise they all stayed intact! It looks like the front ones stayed on the clip side - I don't think they were in the sunroof side at all to begin with. Here's the funny part - I wanted to check out the clips to see what they were all about since you talked about them so much. I went to pull one off of the receiving side on the headliner (front clip) and I broke it. LOL

So, as I was "removing" the headliner things began falling out left and right. The receivers for the "oh crap" handles, the receivers for the sun visors and some loose bolts. I could not fully remove the headliner out of the car because of this blasted electrical cabling that snakes through the whole thing that is glued tight to it. Why would they not put a harness connector on this thing!? So, I had to work around the headliner while it "hung" from that wire in the passenger rear. (Getting those B frame pillar covers off was a PITA too).

Nonetheless - just as you described - those loose bolts in the headliner were three of the front securing bolts for the sunroof! WHAT THE HECK!? I went ahead and re-secured them, but I left all of the interior apart. I poured water on the roof and alas there is no leak! I want to leave it this way until we get a good rain or I decide to get out the water hose to confirm. However, I think your advice was perfect in this scenario. I feel like it might be a good idea to go back through later and put some locking or teflon nuts/washers on these bolts - perhaps it will keep them from backing out next time? I have NEVER seen something like this happen in a car I have owned or worked on. Crazy stuff!

Now - back to my other "main" issue - sunroof operation. I have everything tore down now and I have a great visual inspection on everything. However, the sunroof control does nothing. I manually pulled the motor down and applied power to it and it will run. However, I am not sure how to probe it to test it while it is installed in the sunroof controller - are there two wires I can apply power directly to in order to test? I have a power probe, so that's no issue - I just don't want to damage anything... more than it already is. (lol)

I feel like crying tears of joy/frustration/confusion after getting those bolts back in. In thirty years I have NEVER had to pull a headliner down in a car - it has always terrified me to do so. This was certainly a learning experience, and I am sure it will just continue to be as I get this thing restored.

I appreciate all of the great help. Sorry it took me so long to get back on task. Holidays, COVID, birthdays, and weather have kept me kind of behind. As long as I have it together by my daughter's 16th I'll be good.

Regards.

 

Okay. I have been poking and proding around with this all day. Let me begin by saying the electrical system for the sunroof is simply silly.

It appears that the open/close circuit is completed by the corresponding switch by grounding the circuit when pressed. However, when checking, both "up" and "down" are grounding both wires.

I suspect this is a switch issue, but how do I confirm? Is there a way to test the controller? It is all easy enough to pull out and I have bench test equipment. I just need to understand how both item work and where I should apply power or probe. I feel so lost. I don't want to just throw parts at it.

Regards!

 

This is for the XJ so might not be much help? Jaguar uses the same stuff across most of the product line.
Sorry if it does not help but I could not find the moon roof in my XF manuals.

Maybe it will help explain the wiring enough to help you troubleshoot?
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I am not an electronics expert, but unless you have a known good switch to compare with, there may be no way of knowing of how it's supposed to behave. Consider also that being a rocker switch, it has many jobs to on both sides depending even how far it's pressed and how long.

Most probably however knowing the history here, some water might have entered the circuits in this overhead panel and shorted things out. Even with a good switch, connections could be fried upstream since electrical shorts have unpredictable results as I'm sure you know. Continuity tests could be something to try going back down the pillar as there is a fuse box there as well, and this is all easier to inspect with the headliner down.

If everything else is checking out, replacement switch panels are available, I would get one from the same or closest year car as they make wiring/connector changes without telling anyone.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334250153397
Just example.

 

Thanks for all of the help, guys.

I didn't think it was likely the switch as everything else operating on the same board was operating "normally" (aside from the rear sunshade coming half way up and "grinding" - figure this is a motor/mechanism issue). I went ahead and grabbed a used motor on EBay for $30. I threw it in, and viola - sunroof now opens and closes and no more leaks!

I appreciate everyone's guidance and I will get back to the restoration. Will be sure to post as it gets finished or if I have any further questions. Thanks so much!