Some questions about stake down kits
#1
07-23-2018, 08:32 AM
Some questions about stake down kits
I know there are tons of posts on this issue and I’ve read many of them, including the FAQ’s on Jag-Lovers. I still have some questions though and if they’ve been answered in previous posts I’ve missed, then I apologize in advance for asking again. I have an ‘87 XJ6 with 27,000 miles. My questions are:
1. Does having low miles make a difference whether or not a stake down kit is needed? The mechanic who inspected the car prior to purchase said the miles are so low that I didn’t need to worry about installing a stake down kit at this point. I’m not sure this was good advice and want to verify this.
2. I don’t know if a stake down kit has already been installed but given it mostly sat in the PO’s garage for 25 years, I’m guessing one hasn’t. Besides removing the valve cover to see if the car has a stake down kit already installed, I read I could remove the oil filler cap and feel inside. Does this really work? I’ve seen pictures of what a stake down kit looks like, but I don’t know that I could tell if it’s been installed by just feeling around.
3. Is a stake down kit only needed on just the exhaust side or should both sides be done?
4. I’ve read these cars typically have a slight ticking sound at idle and that’s normal. When the steel tappet guides start to come loose, is there a sound I should be listening for and if I hear something unusual, is it too late? Or do they typically give you some warning that you must address the issue before engine damage occurs?
5. Lastly, and I doubt anyone knows this because there aren’t many Jaguar independent mechanics near me, but does anyone happen to know someone in the Seattle area that could install a stake down kit? I’d rather use someone who’s done it before and knows what they’re doing.
Thank you!
Danny
1. Does having low miles make a difference whether or not a stake down kit is needed? The mechanic who inspected the car prior to purchase said the miles are so low that I didn’t need to worry about installing a stake down kit at this point. I’m not sure this was good advice and want to verify this.
2. I don’t know if a stake down kit has already been installed but given it mostly sat in the PO’s garage for 25 years, I’m guessing one hasn’t. Besides removing the valve cover to see if the car has a stake down kit already installed, I read I could remove the oil filler cap and feel inside. Does this really work? I’ve seen pictures of what a stake down kit looks like, but I don’t know that I could tell if it’s been installed by just feeling around.
3. Is a stake down kit only needed on just the exhaust side or should both sides be done?
4. I’ve read these cars typically have a slight ticking sound at idle and that’s normal. When the steel tappet guides start to come loose, is there a sound I should be listening for and if I hear something unusual, is it too late? Or do they typically give you some warning that you must address the issue before engine damage occurs?
5. Lastly, and I doubt anyone knows this because there aren’t many Jaguar independent mechanics near me, but does anyone happen to know someone in the Seattle area that could install a stake down kit? I’d rather use someone who’s done it before and knows what they’re doing.
Thank you!
Danny
#2
07-23-2018, 08:50 AM
I'm no expert but I did this work on my 84 XJ6 about a month ago.
1. As I understand it the tappets move upwards as a result of heating and cooling of the engine over time. So an engine with little mileage presumably hasn't had that many heating and cooling cycles. Even so, at $40.00 or so for the parts, its cheap insurance against catastrophic failure IMHO.
2. I read I could remove the oil filler cap and feel inside. Does this really work? I’ve seen pictures of what a stake down kit looks like, but I don’t know that I could tell if it’s been installed by just feeling around. -> You will easily feel it if it is there. Can't miss it. There should be a raised plate with two bolts in it directly under the Oil Cap. There's no other plates or bolts in there otherwise.
3. Just exhaust side (heat)
4. I thought I heard the ticking sound, but when I took off the covers my tappets were in very good shape with no evidence of damage. And I did find that one of my tappets had slightly raised (Mine has 88,000 open question because the odo isn't working properly) I did the stakedown anyway.
5. I’d rather use someone who’s done it before and knows what they’re doing. -> That'll be a challenge as I doubt there's a lot of people in the USA who've done it recently. Mostly people who did it years ago or are buying up these old cars and doign it as needed. You will want to ask Doug. If I am not mistaken he lives near you.
1. As I understand it the tappets move upwards as a result of heating and cooling of the engine over time. So an engine with little mileage presumably hasn't had that many heating and cooling cycles. Even so, at $40.00 or so for the parts, its cheap insurance against catastrophic failure IMHO.
2. I read I could remove the oil filler cap and feel inside. Does this really work? I’ve seen pictures of what a stake down kit looks like, but I don’t know that I could tell if it’s been installed by just feeling around. -> You will easily feel it if it is there. Can't miss it. There should be a raised plate with two bolts in it directly under the Oil Cap. There's no other plates or bolts in there otherwise.
3. Just exhaust side (heat)
4. I thought I heard the ticking sound, but when I took off the covers my tappets were in very good shape with no evidence of damage. And I did find that one of my tappets had slightly raised (Mine has 88,000 open question because the odo isn't working properly) I did the stakedown anyway.
5. I’d rather use someone who’s done it before and knows what they’re doing. -> That'll be a challenge as I doubt there's a lot of people in the USA who've done it recently. Mostly people who did it years ago or are buying up these old cars and doign it as needed. You will want to ask Doug. If I am not mistaken he lives near you.
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XJDanny (07-23-2018)
#4
07-23-2018, 10:22 AM
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#5
07-23-2018, 01:17 PM
Veteran Member
My reading suggests that this happens from overheating, so more mileage just = more opportunities for overheating problems. A low mileage car with bad maintenance could just as easily have the problem as a car with 200k miles
The exhaust side is going to run hotter and is more likely to let loose as a result. You can check for the stakedown kit by pulling the oil filler cap.
There would be a different noise with them loose, but there is a good chance of making contact with the cam and causing damage, so the window for you noticing a different tic is kind of risky.
The exhaust side is going to run hotter and is more likely to let loose as a result. You can check for the stakedown kit by pulling the oil filler cap.
There would be a different noise with them loose, but there is a good chance of making contact with the cam and causing damage, so the window for you noticing a different tic is kind of risky.
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XJDanny (07-23-2018)
#6
07-23-2018, 10:40 PM
I have seen the kits installed on the intake side but I have never done it. I have never seen an intake lifter guide come loose.
I used to install these kits about one-a-month back in the 1980s and early 1990s.
It's your call but they are cheap insurance and not hard to install.
bob
I used to install these kits about one-a-month back in the 1980s and early 1990s.
It's your call but they are cheap insurance and not hard to install.
bob
I’m supposed to receive the car this Thursday. As soon as the car is cold, I’ll take off the oil filler cap and will feel around to see if one has been installed. If it hasn’t, I will research finding a mechanic who’s done them before and get it done. I think I’ll want to have the valve covers redone because they’re peeling so I will research that too and do it all at once.
My reading suggests that this happens from overheating, so more mileage just = more opportunities for overheating problems. A low mileage car with bad maintenance could just as easily have the problem as a car with 200k miles
The exhaust side is going to run hotter and is more likely to let loose as a result. You can check for the stakedown kit by pulling the oil filler cap.
There would be a different noise with them loose, but there is a good chance of making contact with the cam and causing damage, so the window for you noticing a different tic is kind of risky.
The exhaust side is going to run hotter and is more likely to let loose as a result. You can check for the stakedown kit by pulling the oil filler cap.
There would be a different noise with them loose, but there is a good chance of making contact with the cam and causing damage, so the window for you noticing a different tic is kind of risky.
If it hasn’t been done, I won’t wait to hear a noise. Like I said above, I’ll arrange to have it done and I will likely just do the exhaust side, depending on how much labor I am quoted. The car was extremely well maintained so I feel a little better that lower mileage cars are less apt to have this problem. At least I now don’t feel panicked I must do it immediately though I won’t put it off.
#7
07-24-2018, 07:04 AM
Veteran Member
the sound you don't want to hear is like a typewriter at a constant speed. (assuming you've heard a typewriter), even after the engine has reached normal operating temperature. The initial typewriter sound when engine is cold goes away as engine warms up. If it doesn't go away, then you need the stakedown kit.
If the mechanic heard the engine run and concluded it doesn't need it, then it must not need it. Wait until you get the car and run it for a few days before you anticipate that it needs this or that. Just check the engine oil every day.
If the mechanic heard the engine run and concluded it doesn't need it, then it must not need it. Wait until you get the car and run it for a few days before you anticipate that it needs this or that. Just check the engine oil every day.
Last edited by Jose; 07-24-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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XJDanny (07-24-2018)
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#8
07-24-2018, 09:15 AM
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1. My mom and dear departed could make a typewriter fly. I still have Mom's Royal in my old office. I took typing in high school and college. I barely [passed the WPM sans error tests!!! Then came the electrics. The smash finger technique made the carriage jump all over. Tenous touch/type lost. Onset of computers. Went to moidified hunt and peck,as I am doing now !.
2. I don't recall if the filler cap is on the exhaust cam cover or the intake. Thus, can one see or feel and see if the stake downs are there. When my car still had it's DOHC, I was unaware of them. It was smooth and quiet at idle. .
Kinda miss it....
Carl . .
2. I don't recall if the filler cap is on the exhaust cam cover or the intake. Thus, can one see or feel and see if the stake downs are there. When my car still had it's DOHC, I was unaware of them. It was smooth and quiet at idle. .
Kinda miss it....
Carl . .
#9
07-24-2018, 10:22 AM
Veteran Member
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#10
07-24-2018, 08:18 PM
Senior Member
I had a severe problem with the tappet buckets moving in their bores. I read somewhere that the reason for the problem was the catalytic convertor generated more heat on the exhaust side causing some head expansion and thereby allowing the pressed in buckets to come loose and rise up to whack the spinning cam...not good..lots of chirping sounds when cam and bucket contacted each other.. I installed a stake down kit - that problem solved. Earlier engines without a catalytic convertor seemed to not have the problem.
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#11
07-24-2018, 10:26 PM
the sound you don't want to hear is like a typewriter at a constant speed. (assuming you've heard a typewriter), even after the engine has reached normal operating temperature. The initial typewriter sound when engine is cold goes away as engine warms up. If it doesn't go away, then you need the stakedown kit.
If the mechanic heard the engine run and concluded it doesn't need it, then it must not need it. Wait until you get the car and run it for a few days before you anticipate that it needs this or that. Just check the engine oil every day.
If the mechanic heard the engine run and concluded it doesn't need it, then it must not need it. Wait until you get the car and run it for a few days before you anticipate that it needs this or that. Just check the engine oil every day.
You are funny about the assuming you’ve heard a typewriter part. But so many younger people probably haven’t. Crazy! My typing class in high school may be the most useful class I’ve ever taken. I’m a decent typist today because of it and use those skills almost daily,
Regarding the sound, so it’s normal if you hear that sound at startup and as long as it goes away when it warms it’s normal? So if it isn’t making a bad sound and given the low miles you feel it isn’t necessary at this point? I just want to ensure I’m understanding your meaning.
As far as checking the oil every day, can you explain why it’s necessary? Or do you mean every day for a few days until I get to know and trust the car?
#12
07-31-2018, 08:31 AM
My car my car finally arrived. I opened the oil filler cap and felt around and I could feel what I’m certain is a plate and a screw so I’m pretty certain my car has a stake down kit. It isn’t directly below the oil filler hole but just to the right of it. I could barely reach it with my index finger but was there. Hopefully, I’m feeling what I assume is a stake down kit.
Thank you, everyone, for your help and advice!
Danny
Thank you, everyone, for your help and advice!
Danny
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