Hi, i found this impossible dream and took her home the second day...
Seller is offering me full set of books and microfiche for xjs/xjrs, any idea what value they might be? Or is there enough info on the Internet already to restore the electric and service those properly...




Tried to capture emotions in this video if you care.

 

Wow nice find. What would worry me, is the issue they were dealing with that caused them to tear the dash out??? Electrical has never been any fun. Especially when you are dealing with the "Prince of Darkness" (Lucas Electrics), or trying to fix someone elses previous work. Good Luck. I'm in process of pulling the complete wire harness, engine and interior, from a 89 XJS parts car. To install in My 89 XJS, as mine suffered an engine fire, that also got into the heater /AC box, and burnt a lot of the wiring under the dash. So an Identical 89 XJS Parts car was the best answer. I decided to "Lump" mine. Due to various reasons. The only twist is that I'am pulling a page out of, Cousin Carroll Shelby's playbook and stuffing my "British" sports car full of 460 Ford V8 Creating a JaCobra. Everybody says why not put a Chevy in it? Cause my name is "Shelby" and I do things a little differently. Good Luck with your "Rare Beauty"

PS. GET THE BOOKS!!!

Jack

 

Some (all?) of the "R" models have the Zytec engine management system. You'll definitely wants manuals that cover that system. It was an oddball system even back in the day. Standard manuals and info from the internet should be enough for the rest of the car.

Cheers
DD

 

thank you for the answers...
what value would you put on the books and bits and those?
I am not much scared of the electric and the reason seems to be "it was not running", so probably the worst part of it...

 

Well hello! Good to see you made it here! IDK what the value of this might be, though you might look at "The Coventry Foundation" auctions on eBay for what they've been asking for sets. I had a friend who sold off a big set like this, but.. unfortunately he kind of shrugged me off when I asked about what it sold for.

These will be US centric prices from basically the major JCNA connected Jag non-profit foundation group selling off excess / redundant donated materials to raise funds:
https://www.ebay.com/str/coventryfoundation

It's true, a LOT of what you need is on PDF and is floating out there for free, so it makes some sense to sell off the physical sets to raise some funds (don't forget how expensive it might be to ship a lot of weight from your location to some other location). It's worth reviewing what you have VS what you can get on the the OE set now commonly sold on USB stick.

E.g. JTP1007 https://store.otpubs.com/jaguar-xj-s...-1975-to-1996/

Just to make sure you have everything covered. Since you're a "Jag gal" - you can ensure you're covered for your current cars or any future acquisitions.

Also, pick up (if you don't have it) - JPart from the forums here - which is an enthusiast' great contribution as front end for the older JEPC electronic catalogs out there that relied on now defunct adobe Flash to display the catalog.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...l-jepc-255587/
https://jpart.org/index.html

~Paul K / FerrariGuy/V12FerrariGuy

 

wow thank you, yes this is the information i was looking for. I will make him a reasonable offer, just to have it, though not put too high value on it.
Thank you very much!

 

Do you know where the car has been since 2008? It's a UK-registered car, but was last MoT tested in 2007, as you probably know.

Paul

 

Yes it was imported to canaries (where I live), but was last running in 2009.
Cleaned her up, and started to organizing the goodies to make sense of it a bit and see what I have. Apparently "new spark plugs" were part of the "trying to figure out why she is not running" process. Thank you for that mystery previous mechanic.

 

Tbh i am still so in ave how clean she is (well if you think off the dust), no rust, everything looks brand new. I never had that before except for my 01 XKR revival. Most cars I deal with here, even way newer ones, hold together with hopes and dreams and anything i touch including brake lines falls to dust lol .

 

So today removed the bonnet to get more space around, removed the oil (looks fine, no water or obvious metallic parts inside), removed all spark plugs and sprayed a bit WD40 inside the cylinders. Tomorrow will check compression and finish the oil change. Not sure yet what oil to put, will depend on the compression test results i guess... Even if it is disastrous i want to make her run before doing anything more.
The exhaust is full stainless, I guess i could sell just the doors and exhaust and interior for what I paid for the car (but of course would rather park her in my living room than part her out). Good deal made there I think.
Gearbox leaks, appears by the front seal, but that is to be expected. Could be leak or normal "breathing leak" from sitting so long.

 

So all that brown stuff in the foto isnt rust ??? I've seen cars that have been stored close to the Florida coast have an amazing amount of rust. Anywhere rainwater goes, salt and rust follow.
Last car didn't have any metal in the scuttle under the wipers and A posts under the chrome. Before you shell out a ton of money have a real close look everywhere, include under the carpets. Fingers crossed you yoy.

 

No it is not a rust, just sandy dust we have here everywhere. It looks bad, especially when you try to sell a car to someone who doesn't know, but is just a dust. Generally cars here rust a lot if you leave them outside or use them, especially around the coast, but this one was sitting in underground garage for many years and now in a shed for few months.So through it life it was just babied for some years in UK, then moved to Italy for a while, then here, then she sat in a storage. It wipes off with an air gun or even presure-less wash. Well except where it sticks on oil and stuff.

 

The car looks Great Joliette. It's too bad a mech turned it into a basket case. I'd like to know WHY they thought diving into the DASH was a good idea? Especially for a problem getting it started and running. Everything under the dash (w/ the exception of the Zytek installation over on the Right Hand Side should be basically the same as a 1992 XJS, and really the only thing in the dash area that would *affect* things is if the key switch is delivering power to the main relay, and the coils/amp. Ideally you'd test the dual hall effect sensor in the distro as that's so often an issue. Unfortunately troubleshooting the Zytek isn't' as straight forward as the Lucas or Marelli systems b/c those systems are not integrated, and are linear with the EFI ALWAYS being dependent upon the ignition system working. Since the Zytek handles both via the hall effect RPM sensor, and triggering system in the distro, there's not really an upstream or downstream *system* to check first - just components.

Good idea on checking the compression, but I bet it will be fine. It'd be a very good idea (as I'm sure you have thought of) to dibble a little oil down each cyl just in case it's been turned over a lot w/o results. Is it hot enough there to warrant thinner than ##-50W oil?

Might just want to install a jumper switch across the start relay terminal, then you can try to start it always from outside... just switch the key on. One thing I can't remember from the S80 diagram is if the main and efi relays are in the std locations. Can't wait to hear what you find out looking at the basics. Is that a *spare* AB-14 amp box I see in the basket-case pile? Or is that the one removed from the car (suggesting the ignition system has been dismantled)?

~PK

 

Hi PK,
as far as I am now, no idea about anything you wrote. I know "EVERYTHING" about car electric but never needed to fix anything on a jag except basics (which might be nightmare for others but still).
No idea why they dismantled the dashboard either.
I dripped a little WD40 in all cylinders, did the oil change (with 10W50), and in process to flush the water cooling which was showing some rusty color.
Started to prepare the electric for the big connect... I will keep the thread updated with anything of a value...
Thank you for your insides, it helps more than you realize especially since I never needed to dig deep into jags engine management so far.
Oh that AB-14 seems to be spare as I got another under the dash on front of the car? Really no idea... The car has been through a lot and likely just had parts thrown at it without much troubleshoot.
Joli

 

The first of the XJRS's were 5.3 litre and stock ignition and injection systems. Zytec on 6 litre only. (that did not carry through to the factory 6 litre which was also marelli)

 

Honestly if you pour over the Jaguar electrical diagrams - they are SOOO easy.. once you get used to them. Generally the problem in jags eclectically tends to be ground connections, Under hood heat degradation of wiring. Humidity infiltration into connectors. Switches that sometimes need disassembly and cleaning. And the occasional cold solder joint. It's more robust than it's reputation would suggest. BUT getting a FEEL for the diagrams helps a lot, as well as having kind of a logical idea of how to tackle a specific *circuit* or *system* set.

An engine clean flush is a great idea (at least an eventual idea). Too bad you can't warm it up for a flush but the best flush is like 3 day externally circulated one using a transfer pump, a recirculation bucket, and some swap out of chemical cleaners - Dish detergent -->water flush --> CalciumLimeRust flush --> water flush ----> Evaporust Thermocure (best when run warm - and better on cast iron but will clean up what cast is exposed inside ---> water flush (many hours on each chem flush) - making sure it's a full circulation flush including the radiator and heater core.

The *ignition* setup is very similar to the Lucas setup. That is - the AB-14 amp is carried over from the Lucas car as are the dual can coils. In the case of the XJRS the AB-14 amp box is triggered via the ECU and the rotor - like on a Marelli car - is fixed so timing is entirely controlled by the Zytek but with a single tier distributor using the regular Lucas cap instead of the Marelli 2 tier distributer. I think the XJR-S used a single Marelli-like coil that had a lower Ohm rating for high enough energy saturation to equal the dual coils. With the Marelli system - each rotor side output is wide enough to maintain contact with the right spark plug wire lug over the entire advance/retard range. I would imagine the same is occurring in the XJRS distributer given AFAIK the shaft is fixed (no mech advance).

Inside the "amp" box is a GM 4 pin HEI amp which just takes coil + and coil - on one end (the neg side controls controls coil shorting to ground / field collapse /spark) and is usually split several ways; 1. directly to the coil for control. 2. To a Zener diode in the case that's a flyback suppression diode and 3 (that's it for the xjrs - for the XJS it's split through resistors to the Tacho and RPM pulse to the ECU but not so for the Zytek.) The ECU itself has an RPM output to the tacho on the Zytek, and it's RPM input is again via the distributer pickup. The positive side is connected to Ignition + and Coil + and inside the box is a basic noise suppression cap (which if shorted kills the ignition - and isn't required to run but keeps radio noise down). On the Lucas car the other 2 pins of the amp are connected and trigger via a VR signal generated by the distro pickup and 12 pointed star wheel. On the Zytek, it itself provides the Amp trigger.

The colorized Zytek diagram at facebook /groups/xjrsowners/files/files might help some. All I can suggest is tackle one thing at a time - probably just getting it started and running first starting with the standard first principles (fuel/fire/air), then the rest.

~PK

How the Lucas pickup functions (4 cyl illustrated but just 3x as many triggers).




How the Zytek Pickup looks:




Here there are 2 metal shutter curtains (that cap thing) that provide an RPM trigger, and a timing signal via the dual hall effect pickup (the black thing). That pickup is a critical piece that often provides headaches and is hard to replace (though I have ideas - including cutting up a Vauxhill sensor that looks almost identical.) Others have created a new plate with 2 separate sensors bolted on. Of course none of that may have been the running problem but.. at least its part of the system description, and a PRIMARY input into the Zytek ECU.

 

wow thank you so much! This is amazing! I will look at it once the times goes. First i made up quick setup with automated fuse on the battery connection so i do not fck up something by accident
now i will go over the wiring and fix everything i see bad. like bad radio install, some lose wire from connectors and some cuted and badly redone wires...
then I will try minimum running system and keep adding the luxury items