While coming back from a small vacation the trans started doing what it was doing when I bought the car. The slip and slow 1st gear engagement, followed by a SLAM into gear and a Transmission Fault error. I replaced the top and bottom half of the trans valve body with new parts. The top half had a passage split open, and the bottom half pressure valve was probably worn so I replaced the entire piece and installed the Transgo upgrade to boot. After that the trans shifted like a new car and there were no further issues until last Thursday. So, the better part of a year, but probably only a couple of thousand miles. Today I checked just in case the electrical connector had somehow worked loose with the washboard roads in that part of Mexico, but it was snug. Perhaps the trans was damaged worse than I thought and the A drum was hanging on by a thread?

This time it shows P1722 Stall Speed. Google provides nothing definitive. Does anybody know anything about this code?

I am looking at a 61K mile trans from a 1999 XK8 as a drop-in replacement. Also, I've chased down all the parts necessary to rebuild this one if that's a better option.

Any advice?

Thanks!!

 

I see that this thread is almost two months old. Did you ever get this resolved?

 

Sigh. Not yet. Lift time at the shop has become very scarce. I hope to start on this by the end of the month.

I opted for the replacement trans in order to speed up the process a bit. The parts for a rebuild came out to approximately the same as this low-mileage unit I purchased, about $700usd, so I opted for the somewhat faster turnaround and less time tying up a lift.

 

I finally got some lift time so I jumped into the trans replacement. I put a better scanner on it first, and not only saw the P1722 Stall Speed code, but also a P0732 Gear 2 Incorrect Ratio. So... we lost a gear and it's new trans time for sure.

The first problem, after wrestling the exhaust off, was unbolting the cats. I keep finding all kinds of Easter eggs in this thing. Evidently the trans had been out, or something, in the past because the converter nuts had been replaced. With steel ones. With no anti-seize compound. They were locked tight. It was all I could do to get them loose with a big-a$$ ratchet and a lot of groaning. Luckily they didn't break, the studs unscrewed from the cat flange.







I then drained the fluid and pulled the pan. The fluid was still a nice clear reddish. The pan had no sludge, but two of the magnets were pretty furry, and the others had far more sludge and metal bits than I thought normal. Definitely time for a trans.





Next out came the trans, after unbolting the gear selector sensor, the shifter cable, the wiring, and the cooler pipes.







The oil gallery plug was in great condition, so it was obviously replaced at some time in the past. I wasted a bunch of time and $$ sourcing a new on from Jag. Anybody wanna buy it?

Curiously, the old unit had no VIN number sticker, and it had been spray painted at some point because all the other factory stickers, and one that I'm not sure of but looks like a garage name sticker, were all spray painted over. Also, the torque converter was spray painted. This thing obviously had a different trans put into it at some time. The records from the OP don't show it and I couldn't find anything about a trans on CarFax. Some cheap a$$ probably put in a high mileage used trans.

The new trans came from a 1999 XK8 with 61K miles. We verified it through the VIN and CarFax. The last service was around January, at 56K miles, so the 61K the scrap yard claims was probably accurate. Note the factory sticker on the bell housing and the factory VIN sticker on the lower left corner above the pan flange.






Then I stabbed it in. There is juuuuuust enough room between the driveshaft and the flex plate to get the trans in. A really, really, really long extension is invaluable for removing/installing the upper bolts. The guy that though it was a good idea to bolt the wire harness bracket to the top of the trans should be drawn and quartered.







I pulled the pan and drained what fluid was left. It was pretty dark. But the pan looked pretty good for a 25 year old car. Minimal sludge and the magnets were a bit sludgy but no fur at all.







I then got the cats reinstalled with new copper-plated studs and new locknuts and lots of anti-seize. Then filled the trans. 10 liters of Liqui-Moly 1200 later it was full.







The next day I put on the exhaust and buttoned everything up. I've been driving it for about a week and it shifts perfectly. I'm feeling a lot more "vibration" or something, seems to be coming from the front left quadrant. Motor mounts, perhaps?

 

Y2KJag,

Congratulations on a successful repair! You have certainly been on a journey and I'm sure it's a great feeling to have it working again!

With all the fluids ZF has approved for use in the 5HP24, I'm curious to know what prompted you to choose LiquiMoly Top Tec 1200?

Cheers,

Don

 

I started using Liqui-Moly in my BMWs and was very happy with their products. The Jag's ZF trans is in loads of contemporaneous 540s, too, so I continue to use it and recommend it.

 

In my experience, the Jaguar factory always use steel nuts and steel studs on the X100 and X150 cat converter flanges. They have apparently never heard of brass nuts and and have definitely never heard of anti-seize.

I always replace the original nuts with brass ones plus anti-seize. As it happens, I've never had to remove a cat a second time but the next owners must be silently thanking me if they ever faced the same job.

Another thing that I do is replace the gearbox sump/pan bolts with better ones. For some reason Jaguar seem to have switched between T27 and T30 (or even larger) Torx fittings as the fancy took them. T27 is pathetically small and it's easy to buy suitable bolts with T30 or larger, the limiting factor being the diameter of the head as it has to fit between the side of the gearbox and the outer flange. With a bit of searching, I've always been able to find a suitable machine screw with both a larger Torx size and a suitable head size.

Richard

 

Well done....

 

According to LiquiMoly, Top Tec 1200 is an equivalent to Dexron III, Chrysler ATF 3+ and 4+ and Ford Mercon V. See the attached product sheet. This means it might be a good choice in the ZF 4HP24, for which Dexron III is still the ZF specification.

ZF specifies different fluids for the 5HP24. Here are the ones we know to be approved:

ZF Lifeguard 5
ESSO LT 71141
Mobil LT 71141
Pentosin ATF 1
Febi Automatikgetriebeöl (ATF) Nr. 29738
VW/Audi G 052 162 A2
Ravenol ATF 4/5 HP

Cheers,

Don

 

There are so many direct equivalents to LT71141, simply found by searching for this name. I'm not sure why one would use anything else as this is the original Jaguar recommendation.

Richard

 

Unfortunately, many fluids claimed to be equivalent to LT71141 can easily be shown to not be equivalent. Valvoline and Castrol are major offenders. The fluids in the list I posted are the ones we know are correct.

 

Mobil LT71141 is probably the most easily obtainable equivalent in the UK The Valvoline and Castrol auto gear oils are not sold here as equivalents but only as recommended alternatives for LT71141, so do not meet my criteria.

Richard

 

We would assume that Mobil LT71141 is correct in a 5HP24, but I have not found any documentation from ExxonMobil or ZF that actually states that it is. Here's what the Mobil website says:



You can confirm this at this link (and others):

https://www.mobil.co.uk/en-gb/produc...l-atf-lt-71141

Is the statement on the website an error? Probably. But unfortunately Mobil doesn't help us with their printed documentation either. I am attaching the Product Sheet, which, under Specifications, lists ZF TE-ML 04D, 11B, 14B, 16L, 17C. These are ZF publications that list all ZF automatic transmissions and the automaker-branded fluids for each, so using these publication numbers is meaningless.

Since Mobil LT71141 is not easy to get in the U.S., I have not fully researched it. Are you aware of any documentation that clearly states approval for use in the 5HP24?

Cheers,

Don

 

In this case the studs were of some non-ferrous metal. They had the Torx "head". I stuck on of them in the vise and used a torch to heat up the nut but all that did was to soften the stud so that the Torx portion snapped off. Amazon to the rescue with a set of studs and nuts for a turbo.

 

I just now pulled up the the Liqui-Moly web site. They show Top Tec 1200 for both the BMW E39 540i, and the Jaguar XK X100 from 1998 - 2000. Both cars have the same transmission.

 

As Esso and Mobil are two brands belonging to the same company, I am sure that they will not be manufacturing two different grades of LT71141 and branding one Esso and the other Mobil. I wouldn't be surprised if all their LT71141 is manufactured at the same plant as the sales volume is probably not that high these days.

Richard

 

As far as I know, ESSO LT71141 is no longer available anywhere, because ExxonMobil has ceased using the Esso brand name (which stood for "S" "O," or Standard Oil).

However, thanks to the research of our forum member michaelh, he has confirmed ZF approval of Mobil LT71141. It's at the end of this document:

https://aftermarket.zf.com/lubricant...e-ml_11-en.pdf

Here's the fine print at the end of that document:




Thank you, Michael!

Also, this product sheet for ZF Lifeguard 5 says it was devloped for both the 4HP20 and 5HP24 transmissions, so the Mobil website's statement that Mobil LT71141 was developed for the 4HP20 is not incorrect, just incomplete.

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...-zflgf5-en.pdf

I'll add Mobil LT71141 to the approved fluid list.

Cheers,

Don

 

It can't be an equivalent to Dexron III and Lifeguard 5. The product sheet I attached in Post #9 makes no mention of the X100 or E39 V8 cars, so if the website makes that claim, it sounds like the kind of implausible claims that Valvoline and Castrol make.

Cheers,

Don

 

Dunno. The spec sheet you posted says it's compatible with ZF TE-ML 11A. That document is on ZF's site and includes, among a bunch of others, the 5HP19 and the 5HP24. They say it's OK, I've used in in both my Beemers and my Jag, it works and who am I to argue with success?

 

The ZF spec sheets include all of ZFs automatic transmissions and show the approved fluids for each one, so TE-ML 11 approval means the fluid is approved for one or more specific ZF transmissions, not all ZF transmissions. Dexron III is approved for the 4HP24 and earlier 3-speed boxes, but not the 5HP24. It's possible that Top Tec 1200 is also approved for the same gearboxes as Dexron III. The kinematic viscosity of Dexron III is similar to that of ZF Lifeguard 5, but the additives must be very different or ZF would have continued to recommend Dexron III for the 5-speed boxes, and they would not have warned against using Dexron III in Lifeguard 5 transmissions:

The ZF TE-ML 11 listing for the 5HP18 is the clearest statement I have found that Dexron III and Lifeguard 5 are not compatible, and it's one of the reasons I have become so careful about choosing a transmission fluid (and yes, I've become a shameless crusader trying to help others avoid mistakes). As shown in the listing below, during production of the 5HP18 ZF revised some elements of the transmission and the new boxes had green type plates instead of black type plates. ZF also introduced a new fluid, ESSO LT71141 / ZF Lifeguard 5. The warning at the end of the listing makes it very clear that fluids in class 11B (Dexron III except for LT71141/LG5) and LG5 are not interchangeable. LG5 must have been backward-compatible with some Dexron III transmissions, but ZF makes it clear that Dexron III must not be used in the updated gearbox and that using the wrong fluid can cause transmission failure. This is why I said earlier that Top Tec 1200 cannot be equivalent to both Dexron III and Lifeguard 5.



I hope you get many carefree miles out of your new transmission!

Cheers,

Don