Too many questions still being asked and answered before y'all read the XK8 Bible in the Sticky Section. Why are y'all so lazy?

The latest is always available at https://www.tothegarage.co.uk/services-1

 

You just answered your own question. Personally, I am a dental school student and don’t have the time to sit down and read anything other than a textbook.

 

Who won the second world war, you so smart...

 

I guess I never read it because I worked on these cars everyday for years and attended Jaguar training several times a year.
Retired now so I do have more time but old customers still drop cars off at my 3 bay shop to keep me a little busy.

Maybe I'll read through it sometime.

Thanks

 

Sorry Gary but as soon as I noticed inaccurate information in your materials it all went into the "fake news" bin for me. Just can't trust it to be the definitive source you want us to believe it is.

 

Then please enlighten me. I have no desire to be the Fox News of XK8s.

 

well there are going to be some differences with the earlier cars. Your compendium starts at 2003.

 

So if my Aunt had *****, she'd be my Uncle?

 

I have indeed read it, but that was several years ago. It can be a good resource but no document that I am aware of covers 100% of the numerous issues that crop up with these cars. Questions still need to be asked and specifics still need to be discussed. No one document will solve that....

 

Even the real bible leaves out the age of the dinosaurs.

 

Gary, I know you have created a great resource for owners with your XK8 bible. However, just as Jon said, it's impossible that it covers every issue on these cars. Moreover, many members on this forum have years of experience with these cars, were Jagtechs back in the day, are mechanics, and are generally very knowledgeable about these cars and how their systems work. There are many reasons many people ask repeat questions on these forums, such as they may want the help of someone more knowledgeable, may require discussing the problem, or simply to seek out the human element.

Sometimes searching on a pdf document can be overwhelming. It may not even provide the answers a hobby mechanic needs. For example, does your bible say anything about what to do if a bolt is seized, or worse, as once happened to me, gives you the illusion of finally beginning to loosen up only to end up breaking the aluminum bracket that held it? At the time, since I didn't have good visibility of the problem, I thought I might have broken off a piece of the block or the timing cover. I was able to get it fixed at a machine shop with the use of aluminum welding and a Helicoil. That was my plan of action after discussing with this forum wondering if it would work.

And yes, there are people who are lazy and fail to look at the stickies section. There are people who ask a question that has been asked a thousand times before. Those same people could have also done a search using key terms for their problem and read through old threads. That has always been present in this forum. Very often, it's a member who rarely posts or logs in except when they have a problem. Kvetching about people asking questions that could be answered by reading your bible is a battle of attrition that will only leave you miserable. There will always be people who do not read it, but there are others that do. I already gave you my reason for not having sat down to read it in spite of having downloaded every revision you have made. I will probably get around to it after I graduate.

Do you think I throw a tantrum each time a patient of mine has new caries? How would they feel if I told them "Why don't you brush and floss your teeth? If you had done it, I wouldn't be diagnosing new caries now would I?" Best I can do is remove the caries, place a filling, and reinforce oral hygiene instructions to my patient. I am not going to go into despair because they develop a new cavity at each recall appointment, and neither should you feel bad about repeat questions on this forum.

 

I completely agree with your post. I take no offense in the slightest. The whole purpose of the XK8 Bible was to save people time searching for common issues.

Rothwell alleged I was peddling fake news without indicating in any way what that was. I know that no good deed goes unpunished.

 

Right, but there were 14K XK8/XKRs produced between 2003-2005 and roughly 76K produced before that (i.e. most of us). So, it's more comparable to the last part of the New Testament (say Romans-Revelation), having left out the Old (AJ26) and first part of the New (AJ27)...

 

But we have none of them around my area of CA to be able to speak with any authority about them. For that I am sorry, but that's just a fact. It's also true that the early cars had more problems that were covered by other authors.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have found use in your 'Bible', but there are always potential improvements. It's not exactly 'fake news', but one example that came immediately to mind when I read it a long while back is

Engine Bay Heat Soak

There is rarely enough room to easily access some system components because the engine bay is largely full of, well … engine. Heat produced by the engine and conducted through the attached aluminum alloy structures destroys electronic components and needs to be forcibly ejected, so prolonged “stop and go” traffic should be avoided. During cruise the engine bay temperature is just slightly above ambient, but rises to >200 deg F right after shutdown. All the waste heat bakes into surrounding structures including the fuel rail, wiring bundles, hoses, plastic and rubber parts and can stay that high for about an hour. The electronically controlled radiator fans don’t run at all when the engine is first started cold, run slowly (electrically connected in series) when coolant temperature reaches 190ÅãF and run at full speed (electrically connected in parallel) at a coolant temperature around 204ÅãF. In my opinion, Jaguar should have louvered the bonnet on all XKs and allowed the fans to continue to run after shutdown to combat the heat trapping tendency.

However, in fact, the engine was designed to make temperature quickly and keep it for a long time (*****e.g. Szczupak et al below).

Thermal stresses in the aluminium engine are maximized in going between cold to hot to cold, not staying at the design hot, especially if you are going to start the car again soon after stopping it. Everything in the engine is designed to run best at the design temperature range and to get away from cold as fast as possible (there's a Jag patent on this somewhere, but I'm too lazy this evening to find it).

The principal electronic components (the modules and sensors) appear to be surprisingly resilient after ~20 years having been designed for substantial temperature tolerance (e.g. ECM has a tested design tolerance of 100 C). Many of the problems we complain about are destroyed polymers. Yes, those are crispy (have replaced too many connector housings to count now, but the pins and wires are invariably okay). But I would trade this for keeping the engine. So, while it is your opinion that cooling should be faster, Jaguar's design decision was different, and was made on purpose understanding the principal tradeoffs that kill aluminum engines. These do not generally include keeping the engine colder whenever possible.

So, in summary, in my opinion, these things are misleading in this paragraph:
1. 'Stop and go traffic should be avoided'. Sure, I don't like stop and go traffic either, but not because it is going to harm the car. This advice seems a bit silly. It also could be a contributor to people treating these cars like fine ceramics (which caused me to get several cheap exceptional cars, so perhaps I shouldn't complain...).
2. Avoiding 'heat soak' is directly at odds with the design decisions of Jag, and at odds with an understanding of how aluminum engines are designed and run. Enjoy your 'heat soak', thrive on your 'heat soak', punch the car up to the max coming out of the parking lot a half hour after you put it there. Live...

*****Szczupak D, Brunson D, Carling J, Cooke J, Joyce M, Massey N, White C. The jaguar AJ V8 engine. SAE transactions. 1997 Jan 1:1546-54. (this is widely available with a quick internet search)

 

You asked the question. I gave you an honest answer. I alleged nothing. Also not interested in debating the details of material that is of no use to me.

At this point it is a deed. Good is subjective.

If your effort was 100% altruistic as claimed then you would have just used this site to organize it and make it all searchable, also allowing for others to contribute (like a lot of generously us do). Choosing to use a locked format and fill it with other people's content harvested from websites without permission and then host it on your commercial site to realize profit doesn't make you look that generous. After all you are basically whining that you aren't getting the traffic you hoped for, and even had the gall to call us lazy just because you aren't getting the desired results. Its a bit insulting.

 

Just, Wow. You are indeed a huge *****.

 

I read the first few posts in this thread yesterday and concluded Gary VanRemortel was too easily offended at the replies of some considerably more experienced and knowledgeable members.

Intending to look at it again today because the replies to other members were becoming increasingly offensive, I have been saved the trouble by receiving a PM from Gary VanRemortel. Amongst other "suggestions", he advised "I am terminating my membership here".

The Bible is therefore no longer the Authorised Version and has been removed from the "stickies". In order to preclude any further offensiveness in posts to other members, Gary VanRemortel has also been removed.

Graham

 

Sadly Graham, your choice was made for you, sorry.

 

Decided to log back in for the first time in a few months and came across all this. That was, uh, something.