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AJ33s vs AJ34s: Are there significant differences besides VVT?

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AJ33s vs AJ34s: Are there significant differences besides VVT?

  #1  
Old 12-19-2018, 12:31 AM
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Default AJ33s vs AJ34s: Are there significant differences besides VVT?

I currently own a 2005 Jaguar S Type R and recently purchased an engine to replace the original one due to it having rod knock.

The engine I purchased is an AJ34S from a 2006 S type R. After doing some research, I found that the AJ34S has a different intake and has VVT (variable valve timing). The mechanic performing the work is concerned that the AJ34S will not work in my 2005 STR, however, I wanted to confirm that was the case.

If we were to connect a 2006 Engine Control Module to the AJ34s engine would the engine work in my 2005? I assume with the updated ECM, the variable valve timing functionality would be added and take care of any issue. Besides that, are there any other differences that could prevent the AJ34S from working?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 12-19-2018, 03:21 AM
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2005MY and 2006MY have completely different Engine Control Modules, also different throttle bodies, and a number of other changes that make this complicated. You cannot just fit the 06 ECM to an 05, for many reasons.

You've got three options;

- Transfer all of the different parts from the '05 motor onto the '06 motor including the cams, timing gear & cam covers.

- Transfer all of the different parts from the '05 motor onto the '06 motor and leave the VVT locked in one position (your choice between low end torque or top end power).

- Transfer all of the different parts from the '05 motor onto the '06 motor and use an external controller for the VVT (which has been done before).

Last option is to add the missing VVT wiring from Naturally Aspirated 4.2 motor to the wiring harness, and have a custom file flashed into the 2005 Engine Control Module, I could do this, but it's a big headache considering i'm on the other side of the world from you.
 
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:55 AM
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I have attached a photo of the engine. It doesn't come with all the accessories, so its pretty much a long block 06MY engine.

I was afraid that this would be complicated. The mechanic recommends we scrap this engine and buy another $2,000 engine. I really don't want to go down that route, because of the obvious waste of money.

It seems the best option would be #2 that you listed, "locking the VVT". Do you have any information on how to do this? Will this require removing the valve covers, or is it basically disabling some sensors? We are going to have to swap over a majority of the 05MY accessories to the 06MY engine, but I want to avoid having to open up the block or anything drastic.
 
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Old 12-21-2018, 04:43 PM
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Why not sell the 2006 engine?
It's worth something.
Then buy one that's correct for your car.
.
.
.
 
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Old 12-23-2018, 01:08 PM
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I too recently purchased an 07 supercharged VVT motor and plan to put it in one of my 03 STRs. It is doable, but adds a lot of work. It is easier said than done to find a non-VVT SC engine with less than 100K mile on it. It will be best to purchase 2 engine stands, and mount the engines next to each other so you can see in detail all the subtle changes. Then as you tear down each motor you can see what has to be swapped from the old engine to the new. (Sensors, harnesses, Throttle body...)

The biggest hurdle is how to deal with VVT. I ran across this thread, because I was just planning on messaging Cambo to ask him a few question on his camshaft thread.
I have been playing around with a remote VVT controller but progress has been slow. 2 companies that have made VVT controllers for other cars do not have interest in helping me. (Unless I spent $3K to $7K for their engineering time.) All recommend spending $1.5+K on a remote ECM and using the built in VVT controller function.
Back to VVT. In order for VVT for operate in a similar state to the fixed gear AJ33 engine, the VVT phaser has to be pressurized the held in the neutral position. You can't just leave the solenoid in a non-energized state. The non-energized state places the cam in a very retarded timing position.
I believe that in order to make a VVT phaser act like the fixed gear, you will physically have to figure out a way to fix the phaser in one position and then change the timing chain on the gear to match the fixed gear, or put in a set of non-VVT inlet camshafts on the newer motor. Either way will involve tearing the front of the engine apart. Once you do this, you might as well put on a new timing chain kit and all new gaskets. (Could cost up to $1K in parts.)
I am not in a rush to do this with my engine, but it is looking more like I will have to do this because I may not have the time and resources to design, fabricate, and write software to make my own stand alone VVT controller.

It would be really nice to have a remote VVT controller kit, because we could put the newer engines in our older cars with a lot less effort.
 
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:08 PM
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Tijoe. Tell me about it. Finding a 03-05MY engine has been an endless search. I was really hoping for a straight forward solution, especially since the two engines are nearly identical, but it doesnt seem its going to be that way.

Please if you have any updates on your progress or additional info please share it in this thread. I'm still pulling my hair out over here.
 
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellis Jones View Post
Tijoe. Tell me about it. Finding a 03-05MY engine has been an endless search. I was really hoping for a straight forward solution, especially since the two engines are nearly identical, but it doesnt seem its going to be that way.

Please if you have any updates on your progress or additional info please share it in this thread. I'm still pulling my hair out over here.
For now, I am stuck on making progress on a remote VVT controller. The VVTPro I purchased requires a different cam timing gear tooth configuration, unless I find space to add a second timing gear on the cams, the VVTPo wont be adaptable. I ordered a PWM solenoid controller to do more research, but it wont arrive until June 7th+- a few days.

I believe that many of the Inlet camshafts are the same in the newer N/A and SC engines as our fixed gear SC engines, but I don't have enough 4.2 inlet cams around to prove it. For some reason, there are not many 4.2 camshafts or heads for sale on Fleabay at a realistic price. I am not willing to open my wallet to purchase more spare camshafts or heads unless the price is right. (Have you reviewed the "count Iblis'" camshaft chart posted in Cambo's thread about camshafts?) You will have to understand the specifications listed in the chart and associate that to the model year engines out there.

Since I am stuck, not being able to work on my 07 engine, I shifted gears back to my 04 4.2L refresh engine that I purchased 3 years ago. Put on a new oil pump and timing/tensioner kit. Using this job as practice in case I have to tear into the 07 engine and put on fixed gears.

On a side note, if you plan on replacing the timing chains and tensioners, you should purchase the tool kits needed to remove the flywheel pulley and the timing tool kits. Makes the job a lot easier.
While you have time, you should order a new crankshaft damper bolt and collar. - The prices that most sellers are charging is horrible! I ordered them yesterday, spent hours finding the least expensive bolt and collar. Still spent over $100 on 2 bolts and 2 collars!
 

Last edited by Tijoe; 01-05-2019 at 12:50 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:51 PM
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Hi,
would a ECU swap be any good from an VVT car ?
I run a 4.2 na with vvt but its not in an stype,
with stand alone ECU.
 
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DaimlerMK2 View Post
Hi,
would a ECU swap be any good from an VVT car ?
I run a 4.2 na with vvt but its not in an stype,
with stand alone ECU.
When Jaguar added VVT to the supercharged engines the ECU changed to a different model, and numerous sensors and other parts were changed to accommodate the different ECU To do this you would have to likely rewire parts of the car, perhaps change the speedo cluster, body control module and most/all of the other control modules in the car. (Easier to just purchase a newer car and get rid of your old one.)
I supposes you could put in a supercharged engine and transmission in a NA car of the same era, along with changing the engine harness, and use the SC ECU.
 
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tijoe View Post
When Jaguar added VVT to the supercharged engines the ECU changed to a different model, and numerous sensors and other parts were changed to accommodate the different ECU To do this you would have to likely rewire parts of the car, perhaps change the speedo cluster, body control module and most/all of the other control modules in the car. (Easier to just purchase a newer car and get rid of your old one.)
I supposes you could put in a supercharged engine and transmission in a NA car of the same era, along with changing the engine harness, and use the SC ECU.
Since my issue is rod knock. Is it possible to to swap bottom ends? Take the short block of the VVT engine and install it in the non-VVT assembly? Would I be able to maintain the same wiring and whatnot?
 
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellis Jones View Post
Since my issue is rod knock. Is it possible to to swap bottom ends? Take the short block of the VVT engine and install it in the non-VVT assembly? Would I be able to maintain the same wiring and whatnot?
Short answer, Yes,
Longer answer, There are differences between your generation engine an a newer version with VVT. Oil squirters and different version oil pump. Supposedly the newer engines have a higher pressure/flow oil pump the operate the VVT. I have not removed the pan from my late model 4.2L SC engine to confirm that when they added VVT that they removed the squirters in the block. (Search the forum, there have been discussions about this.) Others on the forum may have more information on requiring the oil squirters.

Besides that difference, the short blocks should be the same. The next question would be which is better: Use your old heads or use the newer heads and put on your old camshafts. Each has its complications.
Using the complete heads off your old engine may let you get away from having to adjust the lifter/tappet clearances. (Time consuming and can be expensive to do if you need many different shim sizes.) Swapping complete heads may be faster and more cost effective. But if your old heads have higher mileage, it might be worth a quick valve job to remove all the pits in the exhaust valve. (But then that goes back to having to adjust the valve clearances again.)

You will want to swap as many of the parts on top of the engine from your old engine to the new. Perhaps including the fuel injectors and fuel rail to be safe.
I know that the RH intercooler is drilled differently in the back for an air sensor on the new engines and a temp sensor on the old engines. The intake elbows to the superchargers vary between car models and you will have to use the one of your old engine, so the sensors on the elbows will match your harness. The knock sensors on your old engine have separate connectors, on the newer engines the knock sensors are tied together into one connector.

 
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:22 PM
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Ellis.

FYI The head crossover manifolds are different between he earlier 4.2 SC engines and the later SC engines. (See image below.) - The one on the left is the older fixed timing gear manifold off an 03 engine.



 
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