Well, I think I finally had one of the tensioners die. I was driving at a steady 35 mph after a short drive from getting groceries. The car shuddered and then ENGINE FAULT/LIMITED PERFORMANCE came on and then the engine died.
If you restart the car it idles smooth for a few seconds and then dies. If you give it some gas it will stay running and its smooth up to about 2000 rpm and then it will shudder and want to die.
No funny noises on startup or when running. And of course I lent my code reader and can't get it back for a couple of days because he is out of town.
Any ideas to try in the meantime?


Dave

 

From what I've read in here, if a secondary tensioner gives out, the valves fall and hit the pistons. And, if one of them fatigued, and the chain skipped a tooth, it wouldn't run smoothly upon cranking. If that's the case, I don't think you could crank it again. Others will weigh in and give you the most likely diagnosis. Good luck, I hope it isn't the tensioner!!!


My next expenditure is going to be my secondary tensioners and my shock tower mounts.

 

if you are running smooth (in time) and no noises it prob is not a timing chain tensioner. You have something else happening.

 

If you start the engine without giving it gas it runs smoothly for a few seconds and dies. If you give it gas it will run smooth at around 1500 rpm. Any faster than that it starts to shudder and wants to die and because its in limited performance mode it won't let it go much higher rpm anyways. There have been no funny noises while cranking or running.
Whatever happened happened all at once. Was cruising at around 35, holding it steady and all at once it shuddered and the warnings came on.
I would think if a tensioner failed while driving it would make a lot of noise but except for the engine shaking no weird noises.
Without my ODB2 reader I can't get much more info.
Also its smooth at 1500 rpm so you would think it would be rough at any speed if it was a tensioner.
And most fun of all I have no other vehicle so I can't even go out to get anything.


Dave

 

i'd stop running it till you can get a reader to get codes but does not sound like a tensioner to me.

 

I am leaving it alone until I get my reader back but he is out of town for a family emergency so don't know when I will get it back. I just walked 3 miles to AutoZone and they wouldn't let me borrow theirs even with a deposit. My local gas station mechanic wouldn't lend me his either. And I can't buy another as I have about $10 to my name until my next SSD check Feb 3rd. I live alone and most everyone I knew around here has moved away so I am screwed for now,


Dave

 

Dave, Sorry to hear about your personal problem and the added Jaguar one has to be a real bummer. I can only give a little advise on the Jag and that it might be as simple a plugged up fuel filter, it reads more like than anything else I can think of.


Wayne

 

I just replaced the fuel filter 500 miles ago and the old one wasn't plugged as I replaced it as a preventive action because the old one looked original and I was under the car anyways to fix the emer brake.


Dave

 

i agree with the group about it not seeming to be a tensioner . im thinking a blown plug or coil that triggered the knock sensor . just a guess here .

 

Dave, now what? Sure did sound right, hope it's not one of the sell the house honey repairs.
Keep us in mind if we can do anything.


Wayne

 

I can't really do anything until I get my reader back or find another one in the meantime. I really don't want to take a chance starting it and trying to drive it 3 miles to AutoZone.

If it is a tensioner that has only jumped a tooth will be a lot easier to fix than if it jumps again and takes out some valves. I doubt that's already happened as that should be a lot more obvious. I guess if the reader shows codes for all 4 holes on one bank that won't be a good sign.
I guess a totally dead hole from a bad coil could cause the symptoms I am having. A coil would be more likely to spontaneously fail at a steady speed than a tensioner.
I might take the coil covers off tomorrow if its not raining and see if its something obvious like a wire off a coil, the last person siliconed them all on because as is common the connectors fell apart.


Dave

 

Dave. Sorry about the trouble. Please send me a PM with your address and phone number and I will be at the post office first thing on Tuesday to overnight my OBDII scanner. I get a lot from this forum and you have been helpful to me many times. I am not as technical as most of the folks here so this is one way I can reciprocate. Since I live in Richmond, we can meet somewhere in between once you get your car back up and running and you can return the scanner then.


Steve

 

Dave,

This sounds VERY MUCH like the symptoms I experienced with my '97. It turned out to be the engine ECU. I opened it up and found that several capacitors were leaking goo onto the circuit board traces, which causes shorts and all kinds of STRANGE SYMPTOMS and IRRELIVANT codes. You may want to think about pulling your ECU and opening it up for a visual inspection for this. Reply back if you need help with the proceedure to pull the ECU.

Hope this helps!

-John

 

John,

Thanks,
I will check that out also, I already reseated the connectors and inspected the coil harness up to the covers. Tomorrow I will pull the coil covers and check the wires there as I know they have already been "repaired" by a previous owner.

Dave

 

dies at idle but ok at above idle sounds like the symptoms some people have observed
with a vacuum leak.

the underside of the pipe running from the maf to the throttle body often gets
cracks in the corrugated section. also look at the stubs where they join the pipe.

hope its as easy as that.

 

I checked that. Its only sounds ok about 1500-2000 rpm and higher than that the engine shutters like massive random misfiring. No easy pattern as if its just one cylinder.


Dave

 

First I want to thank Steve (MadBrad) for sending me his OBD2 reader USPS Priority. It arrived a few minutes ago so I just checked the codes.

The good news is that it doesn't seem like a tensioner problem.

Codes: P0351, P0354, P0356, P0357 and P1367.

The first 4 codes are for coil secondary fail for cylinders A, D, F, G. The P1367 is "General Ignition System Fail" which would seem to point to the ECU as its not likely 4 coils in different banks would also fail simultaneously.

Edit:
Did some more forum searching and found 2 other people that had the exact same problem with the same cylinders and codes but unfortunately neither of them ever posted what the remedy was.
Its weird that its the 2 outside cylinders on one bank and the 2 inside cylinders on the other. That would eliminate the ignition modules and relay it seems so back to the ECU.



I guess I need to pull the ECU and look for leaking electrolytics unless someone has something else I should check,


Dave

 

If the ECU and connections look okay, I would probably contact ASI and arrange to ship it to them for testing. The 97's seem to fail more than newer ones. Mine has been fine for over a year after the repair.

Automotive Scientific Inc. | Quality Rebuilt Automotive Electronics | Rogersville, TN

 

Its been raining so I haven't been able to pull it yet but in the meantime I tried clearing the codes and starting it. Right off the bat it got the exact same codes. So its consistent at least.


Dave

 

It stopped raining so I went and pulled the ECU. Someone had been there before as one of the 4 screws holding the plastic cover on was cross-threaded and one of the 4 Philips screws that hold the ECU cover on was rounded out. I didn't see any sign of leaking capacitors in the ECU, in fact it looked pristine inside. So if its the problem I'll have to send it out. I cleaned all the connectors and put it all back together.
Now the problem is slightly different. Same codes except now the P1111 is P1000 because I had the power disconnected. But, now the engine stays running and sounds like a definite miss. After it runs a short time you can smell unburnt gas out the exhaust. So I didn't let it run for to long. Also no more red dash light just the amber. But now it also gets "Traction Fault'. Same 4 codes for same cylinders.
I am beginning to wonder if its just one bad coil/plug but it thinks there are 4 bad ones.
Tomorrow I am going to start switching coils and see if the codes change.


Dave